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Topic: Are Freelancers like telemarketers?
| Author | Message |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/20/2008 4:24:57 PM | show profile On another post, an overworked editor who has no assistant says freelancers are like telemarketers, and that our story queries are like unsolicited telemarketing calls. Another "overworked editor" calls this a perfect analogy. Who agrees? Why or why not? |
| westsidestory | Posted – 3/20/2008 4:45:08 PM | show profile How many does it take to change a light bulb? |
| Village Gal | Posted – 3/20/2008 4:55:25 PM | show profile As a freelance writer, I find this view kinda insulting. Most writers I know are sending well crafted queries, so the analogy does not hold up. I think this comment says more about the overworked editors and their understaffed publications than it does about hard working freelancers. |
| LAmode | Posted – 3/20/2008 5:22:16 PM | show profile Are Freelancers like telemarketers? I completely disagree and I'm glad you posted this question. I read the original post and did give it some thought. Telemarketers are usually offering something you really don't need (and very occasionally do need): carpet cleaning, miniblinds, etc. Writers are offering something the editor very much needs: content for her magazine. It doesn't mean every querying freelancer will present something worthy of buying. But they do have a legitimate interest in calling/e-mailing the editor to inquire. It's not spam! |
| LAmode | Posted – 3/20/2008 5:24:46 PM | show profile Are Freelancers like telemarketers? I'd like to add one more thought, since I was recently an editor assigning stories: The one thing I DID think of as spam was a freelancer who simply sent me an e-mail saying, "Here I am, I'm great, I'll write anything, give me assignments." Nothing personalized or specific except my name (and sometimes not even that!). I looked more positively at the unsolicited people who took the time to send ideas and pitches. Not selling just themselves but their ideas. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/20/2008 5:31:45 PM | show profile I've been both an editor and a freelancer so speak from both sides of the fence. It's true that some editors are horrible and rude, but some freelancers -- as can often be seen on this board -- are waaay too sensitive. The analogy is a good one in that freelancers do need to keep in mind they are selling something in a market where there is high supply and not all that much demand. Many publications take very limited freelance copy or none at all or could happily survive without it so you are not a priority and can't expect to be treated like one by busy staffers. In many cases, you won't even be acknowledged. If you want to know whether a query will fly or not, it's often a really good idea to pick up the phone. In the mean time, always pitch multiple editors at the same time, hunt down fat corporate assignments and look for gigs where the editors will appreciate you. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/20/2008 6:29:11 PM | show profile I've been on both sides of the desk , too. And here's my take: Freelancers don't necessarily get paid, or assigned stories they pitch, they often have no benefits, no insurance, sit around waiting for months (six months, to a year, as some have testified to on this board). Freelancers make money pitching ideas, yet those ideas aren't protectable. Freelancers do work at the whim of their editors. (Read other posts on this board) Editors can assign these ideas to other writers and not suffer the consequnces. Editors can string a freelancer along about an idea than decide "not to use it" and not be expected to pick up a phone or pop out an email telling the freelancer so. (see posts) Editors sit on assigning stories and often on stories that have been turned in for weeks, months, in three personal cases, one of more years! Editors have assistants, at least, at the big nationals they do, staffs, benefits, and a regular paycheck. Some have expense accounts. And yes, most editors have to be in an office five days a week, and work long hours during closing week (though those are usually the fact checkers and copy editors burning the night oil, maybe the managing editor). Some editors are rarely in their offices (I've worked for them, out two days a week, out to lunch, out on photo shoots, even. Out for ASME seminars, just plain out.) Both can be rude, vacant, and unprofessional and immature. But really...comparing a freelancer to a telemarketer? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/20/2008 6:31:39 PM | show profile By the way, insomniac, many editors do NOT appreciate simultaneous submissions of pitches and word can get around in industries that are exclusive (such as women's or parenting magazines). You can really piss people off by doing that and make a bad name for yourself if word gets out. And since you don't know lede times (anywhere from 2 to 8 months) you could be working on a story that runs in a competing magazine, making your story obsolete--and killable. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:04:57 PM | show profile It's not a great analogy, actually. Most telemarketing campaigns are aimed at a fairly general group of customers -- a roofing company calling people who live in a zip code. In that case, you only expect a very small percentage of those you call to even be in the market for your services, let alone bite. A query, in contrast, is generally a very targeted, custom business proposal. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Sales is an honorable and essential profession. All of us have to sell our services and products. In the editor's case, the selling is generally done for him by a team of salespeople calling on advertisers. But he too makes his living, ultimately, because of salesman making calls to people who usually aren't happy to get them. --On another post, an overworked editor who has no assistant says freelancers are like telemarketers, and that our story queries are like unsolicited telemarketing calls. Another "overworked editor" calls this a perfect analogy. Who agrees? Why or why not?-- |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:11:10 PM | show profile I disagree completely. I have been freelancing for 20 years. Most editors realize if they receive a query from a writer they don't know, it's probably not exclusive. I have sent out completed essays to multiple editors and then had to turn down editors who wanted to buy it because someone beat them to the punch. No one ever minded, and in fact one rejected editor threw me an assignment. --By the way, insomniac, many editors do NOT appreciate simultaneous submissions of pitches and word can get around in industries that are exclusive (such as women's or parenting magazines). You can really piss people off by doing that and make a bad name for yourself if word gets out. And since you don't know lede times (anywhere from 2 to 8 months) you could be working on a story that runs in a competing magazine, making your story obsolete--and killable.-- |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:16:17 PM | show profile Oh, by the way, I make a good chunk of my income writing what others would call "junk mail." But it isn't really. Direct mail is a huge and successful industry because it can successfully put offers in front of people who want to receive them. Will everyone? No more than I am interested in every billboard I see, every ad in a magazine, or every commercial on TV. It is funny, though, that a magazine editor would take this attitude. Magazines are primarily an advertising vehicle: they make their bread and butter by rounding up an audience in order to show advertising to them, with articles interspersed between them. A magazine editor might think he's providing entertainment or information. His main product is collecting a group of people to show advertising to. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:19:46 PM | show profile I dunno Dribble. From what I saw, most queries weren't highly targeted at all, which was why so few of them got picked up. qunester, I've never had any multiple submission problems. Obeying that rule makes it very hard to make a living as you become too dependent on other people's schedules. |
| Mirage | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:19:52 PM | show profile Speaking as the "overworked editor" Ms. Qunester refers to, I'd like to take a moment to clarify: I think the telemarketer thing is a good analogy because you wouldn't take the time to educate the person cold-calling you on the reason you are not interested in their product, and how they could make it better. Writers sending queries need to do their research and ensure that their pitches are appropriate for the editor they are sending to. If they fail to do this, they probably won't get a response. I personally do not have time to respond to every unresearched and unsolicited query I receive -- which is literally dozens per week -- although I do have to take the time to read through each one because there might be one that IS appropriate, or a specialty that the writer mentions which might be appropriate for something else I'm working on. (And by the way, queries do NOT come to my assistant -- they come to me. Just like job-seekers often try to bypass HR, writers often look to hopscotch assistants and get their queries into the hands of the editors.) As for an editor not responding to a pitch that IS appropriate and that (s)he originally expressed interest in--that is completely wrong and unprofessional, and the writer in question should be shopping that story around to other publications. Decision-makers need to shit or get off the pot, ot they will find that they lose a lot of decent writers. Now, speaking as a freelancer, I do not appreciate being strung along, or forced to follow up on my payment. It's difficult to live like this, which is why some of us (myself included) choose not to make this a full-time profession. It's very difficult, and you really have to have a lot of confidence in yourself--and your writing--to be able to handle it. This confidence also means having the ability to walk away from an editor who is not responding, and take your work to someone who will. It seems pretty simple to me: an editor does not have the power to "string" a writer along. The writer is allowing him- or herself to be strung when he or she could be shopping the query elsewhere. In the end, the editor will be the one who loses out on a good story or a good writer. And writers who flip out on editors, don't deliver on time, or otherwise behave just as unprofessionally as the editor who's not responding to the (well-researched and appropriate) story will find that they have a smaller and smaller circle of contacts from which to draw work. All this seems obvious, and sort of an odd thing to even debate. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:29:02 PM | show profile That's true. An editor can't make you a victim unless you allow it. If an editor was taking too long to decide on an idea, I would have no problem selling it to someone else. If that bothered him, I'd shrug. If an editor is taking too long to respond to an article, delaying my payment, I have no trouble picking up the phone and asking about. Admittedly, I have been doing this a long time, and editors don't intimidate me. I will say this: If you do any amount of corporate writing, where you are treated better than by magazine, you change your perspective of what is acceptable, demand editors treat you better, and don't put up with stuff that you would have before. --It seems pretty simple to me: an editor does not have the power to "string" a writer along. The writer is allowing him- or herself to be strung when he or she could be shopping the query elsewhere. In the end, the editor will be the one who loses out on a good story or a good writer.-- |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:31:22 PM | show profile I guess it depends on how you define on targeted. As a general rule, a pitch directed at a magazine is more targeted and personalized than the average telemarketing call. --dunno Dribble. From what I saw, most queries weren't highly targeted at all, which was why so few of them got picked up. -- |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/20/2008 7:58:36 PM | show profile Insomniac Not I agree it should not be a problem. Heartily. But in some circles it is. Do you write for any of the markets I mentioned? New York City, national magazine markets? Parenting and Women's beauty and fashion? Editors don't like it because it leads to debacles such as the infamous: "Five (Six) Men to Do Before You Say "I Do" Mademoiselle / Cosmopolitan matching stories, circa 2000, I believe. Tres Embarrassing for both editors involved. |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/20/2008 10:11:24 PM | show profile To read the numerous How To Pitch articles MB offers, it appears that there is a demand for freelance work. I cannot count the amount of times I've heard editors say "we just don't have a good stable of TK writers" for a certain section. Funny enough, when I was in college, I worked as a telemarketer part time to help pay expenses. Freelance writing isn't the same to me. However, because I have BTDT, when I do get a telemarketer on the phone I simply say "No thank you, have a good day" instead of just banging the phone down. To me, all editors have the capacity to do just that and I've seen the best do just that to unrecognizable writers. It can be done, it's not impossible. The analogy is a good one in that freelancers do need to keep in mind they are selling something in a market where there is high supply and not all that much demand. |
| westsidestory | Posted – 3/20/2008 10:47:06 PM | show profile All kidding aside, I have to disagree. With this caveat: if you're a good freelancer, you are not like a telemarketer, blanketing editors with generic pitches. Good freelancers hone a pitch not just to a specific market, but to a specific editor, after often many hours analyzing a publication to see if the story/publication fit will be worthwhile. "overworked editor" probably has seen too many pitches from newbies who got hold of an email address but didn't bother to read a masthead, let alone read at least a few issues of a pub to see if the subject matter fits. Better analogy? Like book publishing - the most successful story pitches are "hand sold" to editors likely to be receptive. Less targeted pitches end up on the slush pile, ignored by everyone except the hungry junior editors who have yet to assemble a freelance stable. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/21/2008 3:54:56 AM | show profile Yes and no. For the past several years, I haven't send out many queries, but I do write and send out the occasional essay. I am just writing what interests me, and usually have no market in mind. And then I mass mail it to anyone who I think might conceivably be interested, even if I am dubious of some. I am sure some editors would consider what I'm doing wasting their time. But I don't care. I am only after one elusive yes, and the nos along the way are meaningless to me. --All kidding aside, I have to disagree. With this caveat: if you're a good freelancer, you are not like a telemarketer, blanketing editors with generic pitches. Good freelancers hone a pitch not just to a specific market, but to a specific editor, after often many hours analyzing a publication to see if the story/publication fit will be worthwhile. -- |
