| Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Media Issues > Topic: Frustrated with editors |
Topic: Frustrated with editors
| Author | Message |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/1/2008 10:39:24 AM | show profile Some people would prefer a FT job but if you're hoping to make, say $60K+, there's a lot of people out there trying for the same few spots...likely in the $40s, as well...or $20's. The handflapping dismissal of "Get a job, then!" is amusing in its naievete. Applicants over 40 or (imagine) over 50 face age discrimination -- or are not necessarily willing to drop $30k+ from a former salary into a new one or move to a new city or region in an industry that's become the definition of insecure. It took one of my former bosses, fired six months after me, more than a year to find a new (much lower level) job but, very luckily, at a good salary. That's a rare combination. If you work hard freelance you can pull in $40-50K, often much more...so looking at the same time as hard for a FT job (which is as time-consuming and as exhausting emotionally as all the rejection discussed in this thread) is not practical. I miss having colleagues and an office and the sheer luxury of a paycheck showing up regularly. Challenge? Cool assignments? I get that freelance. But when you apply for FT jobs and never get an answer, you feel the same wasted energy and accumulated frustration described here. The bills keep showing up and your income has to come from somewhere. So you put your limited energy into that which rewards you and editors who do respond -- so FT freelance it becomes. Once you are earning enough income to meet your basic needs freelance, the endless depressing cycle of applying to jobs and getting nowhere increasingly loses its appeal. I saw a job listing yesterday where I have contacts, decent skills -- and the salary is low. If a FT job pays barely $5K more than you're earning freelance, and commuting to it costs minimally $3k a year...what is the appeal? One FT friend has not received a merit raise in seven award-winning years and is very bitter and burned out. How many FTers wonder, daily, when they will be fired or offered a buy-out? Look around you! Read MB's Revolving Door and home page...Freelancers can add 10 to 20 to 30% to their income by finding more work or better-paid markets. And once you are freelancing -- watching all those editors and writers get fired and hit the already clogged job market -- you'll send your resume, too? gossipeuse makes an excellent point about closing a freelance sale...There are so many styles of editorial behavior: WILD enthusiasm....then they disappear; LOVE the pitch, then disappear...no answer to multiple emails or calls...and your emails were in a spam filter (how else would you find out without calling?)...maternity leave, firing, illness, vacation, closing...there are a million reasons an editor who might like to work with you never gets back to you. So you wonder when to be a stalker, when to walk away, when to make one more call or email...Choose to be really persistent and you might piss someone off -- while another finally, even grateful for your persistence, happily replies. Which is which? Your guess is as good as mine. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 4/1/2008 11:31:09 AM | show profile Well, age discrimination is not just what it's about. It's about the bottom line, and yes, older staff tend to be more expensive. The position I just took was a $20K drop over the last job with lesser benefits. I took it because I enjoyed the subject matter much more. Publishing is a business with a bottom line and an expected profit margin. And since printing costs and postage are going up and ad revenues are going down, the big salaries are reserved for superstar salesmen, not reporters, editors. Owners feel anyone can write the news, so bring in the cheaper crowd and slash those who have a certain salary. I'm watching it now. I'm expected to come up with a plan by Friday to eliminate three more reporters and one editor. The work still has to be done, so the rest of the staff are expected to pick up the burden. It's hard times for publishing, but those of us who are smart and lean will make it through, freelancer or staffer. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 4/1/2008 11:42:35 AM | show profile >?I saw a job listing yesterday where I have contacts, decent skills -- and the salary is low. If a FT job pays barely $5K more than you're earning freelance, and commuting to it costs minimally $3k a year...what is the appeal? << The appeal could be -- not saying it is, but could be -- getting health insurance, dental insurance, vision insurance, a retirement or investment-savings plan, mass-transit incentive plan, taxes automatically taken out of paychecks, no longer dealing with self-employment tax, training opportunities. Full-time jobs seldom consist of only a steady paycheck and camaraderie, and for freelancers frustrated with the realities of freelancing, they make a good alternative. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 4/1/2008 11:48:42 AM | show profile >>Owners feel anyone can write the news, so bring in the cheaper crowd and slash those who have a certain salary. I'm watching it now. I'm expected to come up with a plan by Friday to eliminate three more reporters and one editor. The work still has to be done, so the rest of the staff are expected to pick up the burden. << Hyacinth, I am so sorry to read that you have to play Grim Reaper. I really am. In so many ways, I think we brought the "anyone can write news" problem on our profession through our own complacency. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 4/1/2008 11:56:28 AM | show profile And to those who harp on editors for ignoring them, I don't get it at all. Why do you not just let things roll off your backs? It's easy to do and a whole lot healthier than festering over something you can't control. If you can't let it go, at least remember this: Living well is the best revenge. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 4/1/2008 12:02:16 PM | show profile Definitely agreeing with you, BBelinda. It's just that some folks aren't recognizing that the industry is wounded and, in some cases, limping. Freelancers are seeing the downswing first because they, often, are the first to go. But the problem runs much deeper than some inconsiderate editors and some angry freelancers. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but we in publishing are going to have to be transient with our skills because harder times are still coming. Things will be done with leaner, harder-worked staffs. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 4/1/2008 1:15:04 PM | show profile "Publishing is a business with a bottom line and an expected profit margin. And since printing costs and postage are going up and ad revenues are going down, the big salaries are reserved for superstar salesmen, not reporters, editors. Owners feel anyone can write the news, so bring in the cheaper crowd and slash those who have a certain salary. I'm watching it now. I'm expected to come up with a plan by Friday to eliminate three more reporters and one editor. The work still has to be done, so the rest of the staff are expected to pick up the burden. It's hard times for publishing, but those of us who are smart and lean will make it through, freelancer or staffer." It *is* rather Darwinesque, isn't it? One thing some of the old-timers (such as myself) do have going is that we've been through recessions before. I've spoken to folks in their late 20s who haven't yet seen what we're about to see, and they're in for a hard lesson. Me, personally, I freelanced through Bush Daddy's recession and made more than I would have on staff. I could blather about hard work and talent, but so much of it is also just being in the right happy hou--um, place at the right time. My advice to anyone who wants to come out of the recession with his or her career intact is to network, network, network. Even if you end up doing administrative stuff as a temp, at the very least, you'll have contacts for when times are better. |
| Mirage | Posted – 4/1/2008 2:28:58 PM | show profile Caitlin I often read your posts because they're often full of great, practical advice. But your last post has me confused. I think, in a nutshell, you're saying that we should be more understanding of each other's positions. You state that some freelancers would prefer a FT job but that they don't pay enough, or the candidates face age discrimination, or they're working too hard to possibly apply to full-time jobs. I am a full-time editor who also works freelance to make ends meet. I could complain about the hours I work for very low pay (which, proportionally, gets lower each year as the economy sinks and raises are practically nonexistent, never mind promotions). I could talk about how we're all facing the same job market as we each get older and the new crop of grads is released into the workforce. But the way I see it is this: each of us makes his or her own choices. Our priorities are our own--and none are any more or less important than anyone else's. I guess I'm basically confused about this particular post's place in the rest of the discussion, but I apologize if I'm missing something. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/1/2008 9:48:13 PM | show profile Mirage, thanks for the kind words. The point I was trying to make, and I won't make again, is this: I'm weary of people who hiss "get a job!" when any freelancer expresses any problem with being freelance. It's a challenging life, freely chosen or not. How many people on this board are currently, actively job-hunting? How many weeks, or months -- maybe years -- have they been looking? If people are jumping easily and quickly from one job to the next within days or weeks, fantastic. I suspect they are in a minority. And, if they do not have unemployment benefits anymore, they may now be freelancing...are they long-term unemployed (ie frustrated would-be FTers) or de facto happy freelancers grooving on their new, chosen lifestyle? Maybe neither. Maybe a bit of both. Basically, because some freelancers have previously held very good staff jobs, it can get tiresome to be talked down or -- as the original poster stated -- ignored. |
| Mirage | Posted – 4/2/2008 2:21:22 PM | show profile I understand. Thanks for the explanation! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 4/2/2008 3:30:56 PM | show profile An experience freelancer will often deal with editors who are less experienced and knowledgable. Some editors, especially younger ones, see a freelancer as part of the editorial chain, somewhere around a staff writer or associate editor. In reality, a freelance is outside the chain. I realze, though, that some editors don't realize that and will try to teach me like a low-paid staffer, thinking my schedule is theirs to command, and any extra work they want will be fine with me, and I'll hop right to. Corporate clients rarely act this way, but magazine editors do. It is interesting to see sometimes how an editor becomes befuddled when you turn down their requests. One editor asked me to do a sidebar for a piece I had turned in but offered no extra pay. She was actually stunned when I said, "I really don't want to write an extra article for you for nothing." She said, "But it's just a sidebar." When I declined, she angrily said, "I guess we'll do it inhouse then." To which I said, "Great!" --Basically, because some freelancers have previously held very good staff jobs, it can get tiresome to be talked down or -- as the original poster stated -- ignored.-- |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/2/2008 4:20:38 PM | show profile There is an ongoing balance to settle between editors' needs (which can seem insatiable at worst) and freelancers' -- which are to make you happy but to move ON to the next paying project. The issue is not simply saying no -- but knowing full well that many other freelancers cave and cave and cave to these demands -- so the more experienced freelancer who sets limits or boundaries, however politely but firmly, can look like a diva in comparison. It's depressing how often if I ask for...a kill fee...a slightly higher per word rate...and the editor freaks out or even gets insulting. One young editor at a Conde Nast pub dressed me down for daring to ask....what they pay. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 4/2/2008 6:49:39 PM | show profile >> It's depressing how often if I ask for...a kill fee...a slightly higher per word rate...and the editor freaks out or even gets insulting. One young editor at a Conde Nast pub dressed me down for daring to ask....what they pay.<< I have *never* had an editor freak out or insult me for asking for more money or asking what I'd be paid. How sad for you. I also think I take a slightly different attitude toward freelancing, if it's true that this is a board for those who are between full-time jobs. I'm not between jobs. Freelancing *is* my job, my business and, I hope, the way I'll retire. As such, I approach it as a business person: I control my business, not other people. I expect the best of myself, but it's not my place to set expectations for other people to meet. I do what's right for my business, and OK by me when editors do what's right for theirs. You know what's really frustrating? It's frustrating to read all the fussing over editors that's apparent on this board. All the emotionalism. There are bigger and better things to worry about than whether an editor does or doesn't answer a pitch, or does or doesn't use a form letter, etc. I don't understand why, after a pitch sits for a while unanswered, the writer doesn't pitch the idea elsewhere. It's almost as if many freelancers abdicate running their businesses, reverting to a time when they waited for Mom and Dad's permission to do something. It's also frustrating to read that freelancing is nothing but a stopgap between staff jobs, and that freelancers are destined to be beaten up and taken advantage of. This is nothing but a humongous crock of baloney. Yes, you can have the freelance life you want, if you want it, but not if you're not willing to conduct your business in ways that make it possible. Frankly, I wonder what you all are doing to get yourselves treated so incredibly rottenly that you can't let it go and you've developed an us-them mentality toward editors. I simply don't understand it! I have no basis of comparison for it. I write on topics I love; I get paid fairly for my work; I'll go the extra mile to raise the story a notch above the ordinary; I work solely by repeat business, referral and letters of introduction -- the way I designed it in my business plan. Most of all, every one of my editors, no matter their age or gender, is a sweetheart. I've thrown a couple of editors back into the pond, but that's part of doing business, and it takes effort now even to remember who they are or why I threw they back. For Pete's sake, concentrate on repeating the positive, if you've got any, and on finding it if you don't think you do. It make the negative so negligible in life's big picture. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/2/2008 7:30:55 PM | show profile "How sad for you." Excuse me? Who's sad? |
| snappiness | Posted – 4/2/2008 9:47:31 PM | show profile The one upside of this apparently perpetual topic is I have been able to quickly figure out who are the professionals and who aren't. So, thanks for that! And now, I think I'll skip all future "let's complain about the editors" threads. Life is just way too short. For what it's worth, if I only spent an hour on a query for a feature, then I'd expect to be rejected. For querying the majors for a feature, I read back issues, do interviews and a lot of research before I write a word, definitely more than an hour to get the perfect pitch. For me, hearing or not hearing back is a handy guideline that separates the magazines I'll pitch again from those I won't. Although, you never know. Last week I got an assignment from an editor who took about a month to respond - fortunately I hadn't already sold the story elsewhere. Freelancing is capricious. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 4/3/2008 12:49:43 PM | show profile >>Excuse me? Who's sad?<< Right. You said it's "depressing," not "sad." |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 4/3/2008 12:54:46 PM | show profile Right on, snappiness. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/3/2008 2:01:28 PM | show profile BBelinda is a hoot. Her posts always make me laugh. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 4/3/2008 2:47:22 PM | show profile Belinda sounds like Madonna in the latest VF interview where she tells the interviewer he really did choose the gender of his three kids. Yep right, picked the sperm individually and sent them on their merry fertilizing way. |
| Homer | Posted – 4/3/2008 3:37:00 PM | show profile OK, I'll use the word "sad". It's sad that Belinda often has a lot of wise, insightful things to say, but says them in such a condescending way. |
| HisGirlFriday | Posted – 4/3/2008 4:15:04 PM | show profile not sure why I'm stepping back into the fray but ... I don't think Belinda is being condescending - she's being realistic. |
| DHernandez | Posted – 4/3/2008 7:03:41 PM | show profile I'd like to know more about BBelinda's approach than caitlin's, because a path to cynicism isn't what I want to duplicate. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 4/3/2008 7:47:00 PM | show profile There are no hard and fast rules. Personally, I try to do as little research for a pitch as possible. A few years ago, for example, I contacted a major national magazine, asking if they needed a health writer for anything. (I tend to do that, offering my writing services, rather than offer a specific story idea because I am too lazy to want to think them up on spec. Their food editor got back to me immediately and told me she desperately needed a feature on nutrition to fit a column and did I have any idea? I didn't really. So I did a profnet posting, asking if any PR people had any ideas for food stories. A bunch came in. I literally cut and past a few of their ideas and put them in an email to the editor. Took about 30 minutes all told and I sold four assignments as a result -- the editor of that magazine bought three, and one she turned down I sold to Better Homes & Gardens, figuring I might as well throw the material out to the world. And I suppose some people will hate this but I had never in my life read the national magazine (I don't mention their name because I still write for them now and then) and had never in my life read Better Homes & Gardens. In fact, I don't think I even skimmed BH&G until after I had already turned in the piece. --For what it's worth, if I only spent an hour on a query for a feature, then I'd expect to be rejected. For querying the majors for a feature, I read back issues, do interviews and a lot of research before I write a word, definitely more than an hour to get the perfect pitch. -- |
| snappiness | Posted – 4/3/2008 8:24:57 PM | show profile "lazy" pitching Dribble - I used to take that approach because I am very lazy and hate to work when I'm not getting paid. But I found my hit rate was pretty low, around 50%. Because I have a specialty sometimes I have called and offered myself as you have, but the editor has always asked me to pitch, then the pitches aren't detailed enough....argh....more work...and I figure I might has well have done the work up front. Since I've been putting more work into the pitches my hit rate is much higher, maybe 80%. So, that's what's working for me right now. I look forward to taking the lazy approach again one day! |
| WordyBird | Posted – 4/4/2008 7:45:50 PM | show profile DribbleDrive said "In reality, a freelance is outside the chain. I realze, though, that some editors don't realize that and will try to teach me like a low-paid staffer, thinking my schedule is theirs to command, and any extra work they want will be fine with me, and I'll hop right to. Corporate clients rarely act this way, but magazine editors do." That's why when I network and or talk to a potential new client, I make sure they have my resume. When they see the career progression, it might become more apparent that I'm freelancing because I WANT to, not because I HAVE to. In other words, I've already been where they are now, so there's no need for schooling. See, I look at freelancing as the brass ring. I've worked for the day when I can work for myself, as it were. Sure, I need to make a client happy, but that comes from the quality of my work, not whether I can maintain a facade of Happy Yippy Chirp-Chirp after a 90-minute schlep when I'd really like to rip someone's head off, like I would with an office job. I'm 41. I don't have to kiss butt anymore. |
