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Topic: Paying Back J-School Loans
| Author | Message |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 4/20/2008 10:49:02 PM | show profile | email poster I'm looking for people who have already gone to J-school and took out loans. I've been accepted to Columbia and Medill. I'm still waiting for the final word on financial aid but I'll have to take out loans. An acquaintance of mine said it's going to take 30 years to pay back her loans. Is that normal. I've also heard folks say it only took them 10. Is it possible to achieve any other financial goals - buying a house, getting married, saving for retirement - with so much debt hanging over your head? Someone else told me that j-school debt helped his credit rating. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 4/21/2008 12:14:54 AM | show profile I have an acquaintance who came out of college with almost $100k in debt. I'd never advise that, unless it was med school or law, where you had prospects of being able to afford to pay it back. |
| jobhunter08 | Posted – 4/21/2008 12:50:52 AM | show profile It's true that you need debt to have good credit. Loan payment depends on your contract. Generally re-payment starts about 6 months after completion of school; there are deferral options though depending on your loan contract. If you have a good salary, you can always pay more than the required monthly payment. I'm in debt from undergrad loans myself. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/21/2008 2:30:38 AM | show profile Going into debt for J-School ... ... isn't really a great idea. It's not like going into debt for something truly marketable like an MBA or JD, which can land you a decently-paying job that would enable you to pay back the loan relatively quickly. Journalism jobs (especially print) pay notoriously low, and you don't really NEED a graduate degree for those jobs anyway. Save your money. Or pursue a more marketable degree. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 4/21/2008 8:55:35 AM | show profile Just to be clear, the reason I want to go to j-school is because I'm having trouble breaking into journalism and I think the rigorous training, coupled with the reputation of the school would open a lot of doors for me. At the jobs I've held in the past I never feel like I can advance because I don't have any one to give me any real feedback on my writing/reporting. It's keeping me from advancing as a freelancer and from getting a decent job. If I can't get better, then I don't know what to do. Because I don't know what to do with my life other than this. |
| Village Gal | Posted – 4/21/2008 9:11:36 AM | show profile Being is debt for years is a major reason not to go to journalism school. Debt will effect every aspect of your life including what jobs you accept or reject. And you can certainly be a successful freelance writer without going to journalism school. Don't got to J school to improve your credit rating. Even with the degree, the will be a lot of competiton for jobs. Have you applied to CUNY J School? It's much cheaper |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/21/2008 9:11:37 PM | show profile Joyeux ... I feel your frustration. But getting yourself into debt for an advanced degree to (maybe) land you a relatively low-paying writing job is not the answer. More experience is what you need. I can't tell you how many Columbia J-School grads come into my television network as interns, thinking they can write their own ticket. Then their internships end. And maybe, if they're lucky, they get offered the same entry-level jobs that are offered to kids with "only" bachelors' degrees from state schools. Jobs that pay in the $30-40K range. Then the reality sets in: a master's degree in journalism is virtually worthless in the FIELD of journalism. Unfortunately, even a degree from Columbia is not a Get-Out-Of-Experience-Free Card. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 4/22/2008 12:05:28 AM | show profile Matt, I certainly don't think that a j-school degree is a free ticket. If I had an opportunity to get more experience, I'd certainly take it. I've spent the last several months looking for opportunities and I've gotten no where. To me, j-school is an opportunity to improve my writing and reporting skills that will eventually hook me some experience to build my career on. I definitely know I won't be writing my own anything. Right now it feels very much like an either or scenario. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/22/2008 12:25:41 AM | show profile Joyeux ... Journalism is one of those few fields where you really only learn by DOING. Yes, J-school will improve your writing and composition techniques. But those lessons are not worth $60K. Start writing. Anything. Club newsletters. Articles in local newspapers. Even New York City has small neighborhood newspapers that are always looking for submissions. |
| Village Gal | Posted – 4/22/2008 10:53:26 AM | show profile It's not an eitheor scenario. When I was starting out, I improved my writing tremendously by working with one or two great editors asa freelance writer. I also freelanced inhouse at a trade mag and learned how to be a good reporter by listening to how my colleagues worked. All of this was better than any classroom. And now that Im working on a book, I have a great mentor. You need to find people who can help you - or you can go into debt to get a degree. |
| catlondon | Posted – 4/22/2008 11:37:54 AM | show profile If what you're looking for is prestige, then go to Columbia or Medill knowing that yes, you might take 30 some years to pay back your loans. However, if you're looking for a few years of focused writing and mentoring, check out your state university and see who is on their faculty and what their grads have been doing. Contrary to popular belief, you can get a great education at a lower-cost state school. Both University of Maryland and University of Missouri have excellent journalism graduate schools and both schools offer assistantships in various school departments--a tried and true method of getting through school with a minimum of expense. |
| bjoconnorfla | Posted – 4/22/2008 12:11:07 PM | show profile I know people who say what they learned and the experience of doing the Columbia j-school year really made a difference in their careers, and from what I see it really can. In most cases, though, those people had pursued other career paths in undergrad before deciding to switch careers into journalism -- so they didn't work on the college paper, string for the local weekly, slog through unpaid internships, freelance for a little hometown daily, etc. Essentially, you are buying the experience you would get doing all that beginner stuff for a couple years, and getting a credential. You're getting that training from people who are FAR, FAR, FAR more talented and accomplished than the hack grinding out the local weekly (in most cases), which is a big plus. And, in the good old days, a Columbia degree was a ticket out of the weekly papers and into a decent-sized daily. During the 70s, my paper in Florida hired several Columbia kids over the phone, sight unseen, just based on the degree and their clips. That is not the case today, of course, and while the degree will help you land a job it will be at a relatively lower pay and probably in a market far outside of NYC where you are going to grind out four dailies plus features and enterprise according to a rigid formula. You will have to work your way up from that, with a starting salary of $25-30k, plus you need to have a car, maybe take your own pictures and no, they won't pay to relocate you. Your loans could be a burden for 10 years (your friend who took 30 sounds like she ran into some other troubles and maybe refinanced the loans several times). It will limit your choices and your lifestyle. Look at who's hiring now, what they pay and crunch the numbers to see if you could make it (you can get budget counseling from your local debt counseling service; look them up at www.nfcc.org). For example, borrowing $30,000 to pay back over 10 years at 7% means a monthly payment of $350. Can you consider going part-time in the program and working your way through? This way you can try the program out at somewhat lower cost, and use the contacts and support at Columbia to try and get a foot in the door somewhere that may offer tuition reimbursement and a chance to move up. And don't give up. I finished my undergrad in 1982 and went to work at a weekly n the outer burroughs. I got my Columbia MSJ in 2001, not only for free but with a stipend, as part of a fellowship -- then I was unemployed for three years. The j-school degree only makes a difference when you're starting out. The first few jobs always are hard, and hard to get, and that'[s much harder today, whatever you do. Good luck. |
| hurldog | Posted – 4/22/2008 1:46:59 PM | show profile Matt and Cat are correct. As a j-school grad, I can say first hand that an MA/MS in journalism does typically land you a job with a salary that justifies the cost. I went to a cheaper state school with full tuition remission (assistantship), so it was a fun two-year diversion right after undergrad and I got some stellar internships out of it.. But there's no way in heck I would've went if I had to pay out of pocket, and the job I have now has very little to do with my degree anyway (it's been implied to me that it hurts somewhat, actually). |
| hurldog | Posted – 4/22/2008 1:48:05 PM | show profile That first sentence should read "does NOT justify..." |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/22/2008 4:38:47 PM | show profile Sorry BJ ... "Essentially, you are buying the experience you would get doing all that beginner stuff for a couple years, and getting a credential." WRONG. A public relations or corporate communications exec wanting to go into television (or, dare I say, print, but I'll let the print people speak for themselves) who goes back and gets his Columbia J-degree does NOT "buy experience" out of that "beginner stuff". I've seen many people try to do this over the years at the stations and networks where I've worked, and guess what? They're all offered the same "beginner stuff" jobs that are offered to the REST of the beginners. And they either take those jobs (if they can afford the pay cut), or they go back to their old industry. But now they're $60,000 in debt. |
| deadbeatdad | Posted – 4/22/2008 9:11:34 PM | show profile Joyeuxnoelle, Your question deserves a more nuanced response. Anytime someone asks "is j-school worth it?" you get 20 people saying the same, knee-jerk thing. Cost is a valid, serious concern, but it's not the only factor. It really depends on the individual's circumstances. Like another poster brought up, j-school tends to most benefit those who are making a career switch. I know one person who went to NYU and now has an excellent staff writer position at a well-known glossy. He made a career switch, and told me he needed j-school to focus on writing and show that he was serious. If you ask him, he'd say it's worth it. I also needed to make a career switch. I personally couldn't justify the ghastly costs of local New York schools, so I opted for an international program that costs a fraction of domestic tuition. There are pluses and minuses (living abroad in different countries, learning from international professors and journalists, etc., but not having the rigorous career networks found at home, thus requiring LOTS of personal initiative). I am very glad I made the choice. It was the right one for me, and I'm enjoying the writing opportunities I've had thus far and the theoretical background to improve my understanding of journalism. I couldn't have done it the half-assed way--which is what many people advocate: freelancing on top of a full-time, non-related job. Believe me, I tried. And I needed something different. This was the right path for me. So it all depends. Good luck. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 4/22/2008 10:54:34 PM | show profile | email poster so who are the folks actually coping with loans Thanks deadbeatdad. I realize that vehemently anti-j-school people don't have the perspective to help navigate this. I'm sort of looking to make a career switch too in the sense that I want to use this experience as a way to launch my self as a real journalist - the pub I've worked at up to this point has low editorial standards and I could work their for years and never really improve. Volunteering for the local neighborhood newsletter isn't going to help me at this point and in the end, you shouldn't need your employer to teach you how to do your job. Would you mind telling me about the international program you attended? Which country was it in? But what I really wanted when I started this thread was to hear about people who have actually taken out loans and how they are coping with repaying them on meager salaries. So anyone out there? |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/22/2008 11:50:45 PM | show profile Excuse me ... "I realize that vehemently anti-j-school people don't have the perspective to help navigate this." You're right. Some of us are too busy running network broadcasts and hiring people to fill the jobs the j-school people are hoping to land. What do WE know, anyway? |
| Village Gal | Posted – 4/23/2008 9:48:36 AM | show profile Do what you have to do. I personally feel a debt free life offers freedom and career flexibility but it's your choice. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 4/24/2008 12:08:08 AM | show profile Are you 100% committed to this as a career. I mean, is this going to be it until you turn gray? I ask because I, too, have a masters. Mine is not in journalism, but a related field. Those little gray-haired old ladies were all expected to retire in 2000 with great pensions, according to my profs and the OOH. Guess what? They didn't. Now I can't get my foot in the door locally because many refuse to retire. (I would HAVE to relocate because I would HAVE to live in the district in which I work, and moving is not an option right now.) I'm also making a better salary since I graduated in 1999--I stayed in the journalism field--so I can't afford the drop if I were hired as entry level in my new career. Paying those school loans really sucks each month for the next umpteen years. Just something to consider. |
| JackieRo | Posted – 4/24/2008 10:48:46 AM | show profile HG, why did you get the masters if it wouldn't give you a good starting salary? I didn't realize that there were entry-level jobs that paid less than journalism! |
| bjoconnorfla | Posted – 4/24/2008 1:34:40 PM | show profile Hey, Matt ... You misunderstood. I said it gets you past beginner stuff like community shopper weeklies and those summer college internships where you basically are a file clerk. I didn't say it puts you on the national desk of The Times. Instead, you typically get on the local staff of a mid- to small daily, where you wouldn't normally get hired without all that other experience. You're still making $30k a year and covering the water board, you're just not doing it as a college stringer making 8 cents a word. I, too, have seen career-changers who went and got a grad degree and then were shocked that they had to start at the relative bottom, at least on salary. Those folks are just plain foolish. Most of the career-changers I met in the p/t program at Columbia were serious enough to have checked things out and new they would be starting for as little as a third of what they had been making, down in the trenches. But at least, thanks to their degree, they didn't have to write pee-wee soccer results for free in exchange for clips from the 2,000-circ. Floral Park Weekly News. |
| Marie | Posted – 4/24/2008 3:47:26 PM | show profile Columbia is actually excellent for career changers, as it saves you a lot of time wallowing around, not knowing quite what you're doing. This is who a lawyer who went there. Many career changers, like BJ said, knew what they were getting into. Many were a lot older, were on second careers, and at least two that I know of used the Columbia experience and training to write books, often on topics they knew a lot about (from previous careers) before they got there. I think any New Yorker set on grad school who doesn't at least try to get into the CUNY program is nuts, though. Pretty soon, it will be impossible to get into, because it's small, excellent and comparatively cheap. Grad school is a very personal decision, and you can't really listen to other people. You have to feel it's right for you. Columbia, providing you're aggressive about getting into specific classes (it's not all good) and work extremely hard, teaches you much more than you'll learn on most entry-level jobs. You are, for the most part, learning and being edited by pros. Not all experience is good experience. If you're being trained (that is, if you're lucky to get any training these days) by people who don't know anything, what good is that for your career? I still have some money left to pay on my Columbia loan, but it's never really been a problem. It's a low-interest, low-pressure loan. And I'm glad I went there. It can be a life-changing experience. |
| Marie | Posted – 4/24/2008 3:49:39 PM | show profile Obviously, that should be "from a" not "who is" regarding the lawyer. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 4/24/2008 8:59:24 PM | show profile | email poster Hi Marie, Could you activate your email? I'd like to speak to you off board. |
