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Topic: leave manhattan for bushwick?
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| artnixie | Posted – 4/25/2008 9:33:23 AM | show profile | email poster I was just informed I've won a co-op in an affordable housing lottery. On Monday April 28 I will be given a floorplan and told the price. I then have one week to have a lawyer review the documents and arrange a mortgage. I will not be able to see the actual apartment, though I walked by the building earlier this week. And I am supposed to commit to living there for 25 years. I don't know what happens in terms of selling it if I need to leave New York. The building is new, in Bushwick near the Flushing Avenue M stop. It's a boxy, flat-front midrise surrounded by similar-looking public housing, for seniors. I'm sort of freaking out about the short time and limited information I have to make this decision. I've lived in a tiny tenement studio in the East Village for over a decade, and though the building is run-down and the apartment perpetually springing leaks, I love walking everywhere and having abundant restaurants, groceries, and cultural offerings nearby. Even though the neighborhood has changed from grassroots artist-haven to generic NYU dorm and playground. I also look out to backyard trees whereas the Bushwick building is decidedly urban avenue. On the other hand, the new landlord is aggressively attempting to empty my building, and it's about half-empty with the remaining tenants feeling a bit under seige. At some point this will be a noisy, dirty construction zone as they gut-renovate. This is a big lifestyle change. I'm looking for insight from anyone who's made this sort of decision themselves -- leaving Manhattan for Bushwick or winning a housing lottery and moving in sight-unseen. Or if you've moved from a small, intimate building to a new high-rise. Or can tell me about living in Bushwick. Anything, really. |
| DQ102 | Posted – 4/25/2008 10:41:34 AM | show profile I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago. I live in the East Village, and I won a housing lottery that made me eligible to buy a one-bedroom apartment in Harlem. I was fortunate in that the building, a new construction, was nearly finished, and I got the chance to go and look at the apartment. It was a great deal financially, but I turned it down in the end. Yes, it would be a dream-come-true to own an apartment, but I just couldn't give up the East Village and the sense of community I have here. While the East Village has changed a lot in the nearly twenty years I have lived here, there is still a real sense of community that you don't get anywhere else in Manhattan. Plus, there are the conveniences. I don't have to get in a cab to take my cat to the vet, and friends are always in the neighborhood and able to easily stop by to visit me. I think I would have been lonely way uptown. And while my apartment in the East Village doesn't offer the newest amenities, it has character that these new box buildings don't offer. Good luck with your decision. I would be curious to know what you decide! |
| artnixie | Posted – 4/25/2008 11:36:41 AM | show profile | email poster interesting reply, thanks Thanks for the totally responsive response! I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind. Did you calculate rent versus mortgage and decide you were OK with continuing to pay rent? And how big is your apartment? Mine is about 270 sq feet, and has some structural issues. I'm trying to decide in the abstract,like, well if the new apartment is over 500 feet I'll take it, or if it faces south I'll take it, factors like that. I've been looking at Bushwick blogs, and I guess a case could be made that a similar community feeling is developing there. But it's more spread out, not small brownstones and tenements on tree-lined streets. Oy vey! |
| Village Gal | Posted – 4/25/2008 11:42:10 AM | show profile Yes, the EV has changed a lot but if you have a rent stabilized apt in the East Village you would be crazy to trade that cool nabe (I lived there for 22 years) for Bushwick. If you have a rent stablized apt, you have already won the lottery and the landlord really can't force you out. As for construction, it will be temporary and it is happening all over Manhattan. The reason I left the EV was because I got a better deal elsewhere (after 10 years on a waiting list) but I miss it. |
| artnixie | Posted – 4/25/2008 12:18:13 PM | show profile | email poster waiting list? Village Gal, did you get into WestBeth? That's the one people wait for. Or I guess that one building where all the actors live on the west side of midtown. It's true my place is rent stabilized, but it is really tiny. Would be ideal if I were an independently wealthy jet-setter and used it as a pied-a-terre, but otherwise it's kind of like living in a closet. I know some people keep places like this and use the money they've saved to travel or buy a share in a country getaway. I'm freaking outttt! Thanks for replying, you guys. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/25/2008 12:19:24 PM | show profile Rent-stabilization isn't going to last forever ... ...and when it goes away you'll be sorry you passed up a deal to OWN your home. |
| DQ102 | Posted – 4/25/2008 12:30:51 PM | show profile Hi again. To answer your questions, I did calculate rent vs. mortgage, and the mortgage would have cost me more. But that wasn't really a factor for me. It was really about quality of life. Yes, there are financial benefits to owning a home, but I didn't think the financial benefits of home ownership outweighed my personal happiness, and again, I know I would have been lonely if I made the move way uptown. There are also financial downsides to owning a home. If you have to stay in this place a certain number of years before you sell, are you comfortable with that? Can you commit to that? And if a job or something else takes you away from this place, will you have the right to sublet it, and will you be able to charge a subletter enough to cover all of your costs? Find out about that. On to your next question: My apartment is about 500 square feet. It isn't huge, but I don't care about having tons of space. I really like being in the center of things and being able to walk to Tompkins Square Park, or grab a taco at San Loco, or Italian food at 11B, or a slice at Two Boots. The apartment I could have bought was bigger than my place and had a balcony. I would love a balcony! But I realized location, location, location is what is most important to me. That said, location might have not been such a major factor if I lived with someone. If I was part of a couple or a family moving to a new location, then I might not have worried so much about the loneliness factor. But if you live alone, you really have to picture yourself in the new place and neighborhood. Do you have any friends nearby? Some people will urge you to jump on this because who doesn't want to own their own home. I would love to own my own home. But you have to really make sure that you will be happy in your new home. As much as I was tempted to buy this place because offers like this just don't come along every day, I couldn't leave my hood. I might very well move from the East Village some day and buy a place, but it will have to be in a neighborhood that offers the same amenities whether it is in or outside of the greater NYC area. If you have more questions, ask away! |
| artnixie | Posted – 4/25/2008 1:11:45 PM | show profile | email poster balcony! Before this I'd made a list of what might induce me to move. Balcony was up there. Or some sort of outdoor access. Also space, a separate kitchen, light, and cross-ventilation. |
| DQ102 | Posted – 4/25/2008 1:15:08 PM | show profile I can't tell you how much I would love to have a balcony or any outdoor space that I could enjoy during the warmer months. While my theme is apparently avoiding loneliness, that might not be an issue for you. I wanted to note that! So don't let my issues with that sway you if it is not going to be an issue for you. |
| recovering_jersey_girl | Posted – 4/25/2008 2:03:57 PM | show profile I'm not really qualified to reply since I own a condo up in the northern exurbs of NYC, but I wanted to share this: Even if you can't see the unit, per se, I think it would benefit you to spend some time in the neighborhood. It's great you're exploring it online, but I would suggest doing so in real life, too. |
| rhino writer | Posted – 4/25/2008 2:29:12 PM | show profile Walk around the neighborhood at night, go during the day and hang out in a coffee shop, go the grocery store and shop, see who else is out. Pretend you live there and go do the stuff you do. Can you get used to it there? |
| artnixie | Posted – 4/25/2008 2:52:44 PM | show profile | email poster thanks Yeah, I plan to go out there this evening and also tomorrow afternoon. I spent a couple of hours wandering around (lost) the other morning on Myrtle and Bushwick Avenues. Printed out some maps. |
| Village Gal | Posted – 4/25/2008 3:09:24 PM | show profile Thinking about this more..okay your place does sound small, but there is nothing like the East Village. And having to commit to living anywhere for 25 years sound scary. Truthfully, I have never understood why people think it is so great to own in NYC. To me, it is far less headaches being a renter. If I had the money to buy, I'd get a weekend place. Rent stabilization is obviously being phased out but I seriously doubt it will be taken away from those currently in the system. I agree with what everyone said about checking out Bushwick at night and on the weekends. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/25/2008 4:32:32 PM | show profile congrats! lots to consider... I would worry less about the building's exterior than the light/exposures (bathroom? kitchen?), space and layout, neighborhood and feeling you have when you check out the area. I'd also locate and visit the nearest police precinct and see if you can find someone there to tell you what's going on from their POV. It's not just access to cool bars or grocery stores but how safe it is and, if not, how really unsafe it might be for a woman walking home alone late at night. I own my apartment and it was the best choice I ever made. I love knowing no one can ever force me out or mess with its interior. My building is UGLY...bland, boxy 1960s, totally not my taste, but what I could afford -- but my home inside it is bright, spacious, quiet, the view is astounding and I love my town. I get friends up to visit me on Metro-North or by car from Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan and I am lot further from Manhattan than Bushwick...real friends will want to see you. New clean construction might be a great change -- and who wants to live with the noise and filth and disruption of a gut reno around you? And one that will never put any added $$$ into your pocket -- which improving your own home can do. My living room is 250 square feet. I would go insane, cool nabe or not, living in 270 dilapidated and vulnerable-to-a-landlord square feet. I have lived in small studios in great neighborhoods, but being an owners versus renter can be fantastic (hello, mortgage interest tax deduction?) if the numbers work out for you. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/25/2008 4:46:35 PM | show profile Well, Village Gal ... There are four main reasons why it's great to own versus rent: -- As a renter, my tax refund hovered around $4,000. As a homeowner, my refund this year was $14,000. My old rent was identical to my new combined mortgage/monthly maintenance. -- As a renter, you are guaranteed the rent will ONLY go up. As a homeowner with a fixed-rate mortgage, my monthly payment will NEVER go up. For the next 30 years. -- Which brings me to my next point: When you own, eventually you pay the mortgage off and you own the property free and clear. Your monthly housing costs plummet dramatically, as you are now only responsible for your monthly maintenance (which was a fraction of your total housing costs while you've been paying the mortgage). This is how one can afford to RETIRE in New York City on a reduced income. Not so with renters, whose monthly costs will NEVER go down, and ONLY go up. -- And when you DO finally move out of your apartment, you walk away with a chunk of change called "equity". Not so with renters, who walk away with ... nothing. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 4/25/2008 5:28:55 PM | show profile And, if you can still find a bank willing to do so, you can use the equity in your home (carefully!) to get a loan to finance other things when necessary. For most middle-class earners -- and most media employees short of TV stars would fit the bill -- there are very few other legal ways, beyond your IRA, winning the lottery or selling your screenplay to Hollywood, to accumulate a serious six-figure nest egg. I would also argue that even a high-rise -- depending who lives there -- can have intimacy. I know many of the people in the 100 apartments in my building by face and name and certainly know everyone on my floor. Mine is not a high-rise, but it's too easy to conflate high-rise with lonely anonymity when that might not be true. |
| Village Gal | Posted – 4/26/2008 12:16:05 PM | show profile Well, Matt thank you for the information but I would be insane to leave my current living situation. It's fantastic and I am grateful every day that I live in this place. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 4/26/2008 4:48:51 PM | show profile You're welcome, Village Gal ... I think it's "insane" to rent, but to each his own. |
| DQ102 | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:05:59 AM | show profile Hi artnixie, According to your original post, you were set to get the price of the apartment and a floorplan yesterday. Just wondering where you stand. I am caught up in your real estate drama! |
| Printingman | Posted – 4/29/2008 1:34:55 PM | show profile | email poster After renting for over 20 years, I finally made the plunge to home ownership. moved to Belle Harbor which is part of Queens on the Rockaway peninsula, 2 blocks from the beach. there are tradeoffs, beautiful outdoor space and living space in general vs. ease of getting into the city as it is at least an hour and 10 min commute on the A but luckily I work from home and have to go into the city once or twice a week to see clients. My wife is a housewife at the moment but plans to go back to work sometime in the near future. I would have to agree with Matt, even hough my mortgage almost quadrupled compared to what my rent was but I look at it as a forced savings as I think my equity will only go up. |
| Mirage | Posted – 4/29/2008 3:02:56 PM | show profile Buy if you can... I just want to chime in with those who have advised you to buy...that is, if you have the option to rent out the apartment if you should decide that you don't want to stay there for the full 25 years. I went from an ownership situation in NJ to one in NYC...it took over a year and a half and nearly drove me crazy. But $1400 in rent (if I was lucky) vs. the $1400 I pay in mortgage fees? No contest. Like Matt said, eventually your living expenses will go down if you own. If you rent, they will only go up...no matter how much you love your neighborhood. And if something should happen that makes you start to dislike your rental (terrible neighbors, terrible landlord, you get sick of the hipsters outside your door at 3 am, whatever), when you own you can sell and walk away with a profit. When you rent, you walk away with rent receipts. |
| artnixie | Posted – 5/5/2008 5:08:06 PM | show profile thanks everyone I just told them this morning that I would pass on it and I am seriously regretting it. I guess I just didn't have the courage. I went almost every day over to the neighborhood and I thought and thought and I guess I was too afraid to let go of my toehold in Manhattan. Now I don't understand myself. I really really appreciated all the various insights. One thing I learned is how in making a decision you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. I hope this is not my last chance to own my own home, and that I will not be afraid to leave my apartment for the unknown at some point. |
| DQ102 | Posted – 5/5/2008 6:52:58 PM | show profile Hey, if it wasn't the right situation for you, it wasn't the right situation. This doesn't mean you will never own a home! In fact, now you likely have more of a sense of what you want and will go into the next situation with more knowledge behind you. It is great to own a home, but you don't want to just plunge into the wrong the situation for the sake of owning a place. Keep saving your money and when the right situation comes along, go for it. Thanks for the update! |
