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Topic: office etiquette
| Author | Message |
| snappiness | Posted – 5/1/2008 12:32:30 PM | show profile I'm just curious, is this the OP's first job? |
| sssuedio | Posted – 5/1/2008 12:34:49 PM | show profile Wow. Thanks for all the suggestions. Yesterday I came up with the "if you can't beat em, join em" idea to bring in my own music and cappuccino maker. I don't like the smell of coffee, but I do love cappuccino. It makes about the same noise as the coffee maker, so I figured what the heck. I turned on some new age stuff, you know, real soft and Musak like, and turned my cube into a zen den. It wasn't really loud, but it could be heard beyond my cube. I was calm; the new age was working, and so was I. I didn't get any complaints. Well, none to my face. Production went to their boss who went to my boss and said that my "Yanni shit" was annoying and it was killing their creative zone (It wasn't Yanni). My boss told me to take my radio home and lectured me on being respectful of my co-workers. Today they're watching a tape of an old Yankees' game in production, which caused a mad influx of sales guys to come down to our end and cheer it on. Since 10:27 am. "Cocksucker" and "you douchebag" and "you black motherfucker" are flying all over the place. This is NY. Why should those words offend me? I'm not looking for total silence like a library, but maybe somewhere between library and sports bar/frat house? Before I contemplate my career change, does an office like that exist? |
| sssuedio | Posted – 5/1/2008 12:38:21 PM | show profile Snappiness, first real job. But I worked in two other medical publishing offices as a part-time office assistant in college. Neither were layed out like this and the environment was extremely conservative. That was Philly, this is NYC. Guess I'm moving back to Philly! |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 5/1/2008 1:08:27 PM | show profile No one -- no one -- should tolerate that language. Period. Frankly, this "workplace" sounds like a freaking frathouse. I'd get out soonest. Whatever they think of you, it's not much and that seems the most difficult part of it all. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 5/1/2008 2:06:32 PM | show profile I've said it before .... Management apparently views "them" as more valuable than YOU. The writing is on the wall. Either put up and shut up ... or get out. |
| sssuedio | Posted – 5/1/2008 2:17:03 PM | show profile You got it. But since everyone here is so much more experienced, is this the typical attitude of publishing houses? I'd really like to know so I can make a career change while I'm still young. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 5/1/2008 3:13:01 PM | show profile That depends. What kind of career change are you looking for? FYI ... the atmosphere in radio and television newsrooms makes publishing look like a ladies' church social. |
| sssuedio | Posted – 5/1/2008 3:57:12 PM | show profile I haven't given it that much thought yet. Until this morning, I didn't know that the sports-bar-like setting was the norm in publishing. Since I need to avoid my polar opposites, the creative types, what other kinds of office settings offer peace and quiet? I suppose I can do most anything else in a noisy setting cause editing medical information was really what required my concentration. But I want a job where I'm valued and everyone has to put up with me. Cause it's no fun being the outcast. |
| bjoconnorfla | Posted – 5/1/2008 4:07:54 PM | show profile Hell, HyancinthGirl, msg board posts are the least of it. My LIFE needs editing. sssuedio, that last post is an entirely different thing. if they can play audio, you should be able to do the same -- assuming you weren't blasting it to get even. That kind of language and behavior is entirely out of place in an office(aside from Windows XP crashing and taking your entire story with it, which, let's face it, is not all that rare). Basically, these guys are goofing off and disrupting the work place. One of two things going on here: Either mgmt knows these clowns are wrong but thinks it is easier to make you seem at fault for complaining, or your bosses really don't like you and don't care if you're unhappy. What do your coworkers think? Can you get one or two other people in the office who have more seniority to back you up? For whatever reason (earned or unearned) your bosses don't seem to respect you or take you seriously. You should consider documenting it all and going to HR (if you have a sep. dept). if it won't escalate things too much, have a serious talk with your boss, and/or start job-hunting. The best face you can put on it is that this office environment is really out of control and most people there don't notice or mind, but it is obv. not the place for you. |
| snappiness | Posted – 5/1/2008 5:38:30 PM | show profile I was just curious about if this was the first job because in general, in any job, if you're in the minority, you can't usually expect that the majority change (i.e. wear headsets) to accommodate you. Unless what they're doing is illegal and you feel like fighting it, which can turn into a huge time and money sink for you. Sometimes inexperienced people don't quite get that just because something is wrong or inconsiderate doesn't mean it's going to change if you speak up. Okay, enough said about that. After reading this whole thread it strikes me that your workplace is definitely problematic, but not going to change. It's pretty clear that your superiors are happy with the status quo. You can fight it (some of it is sounding borderline harrasment) if you have the time and energy, or you can quit and find a better place to work. In my experience (20+ years in publishing), creative is sort of noisy and "out there," and gets cut some slack for that. Also in my experience, management realizes that edit needs some peace and quiet to work, and will make reasonable accommodations for that if possible. So, that's my $.02. Good luck. I think some of what you want to change is a little unrealistic (the coffee thing). But it's dreadful to have to go into a workplace you don't like, and you have my sympathy. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 5/1/2008 7:10:36 PM | show profile Sorry--and this may draw the ire of some folks here--but the frat-house atmosphere is most decidedly NOT the norm in publishing. Aside from the racist "black man" bit, which crosses the line from "obnoxious and unprofessional" right on into "hostile work environment and harassment," the juveniles you work with are probably better suited to an equally juvenile publication like Maxim or Blender--certainly NOT a medical publication. But, as Matt said, apparently whoever is in charge thinks these...workers...are more important than you. Heaven knows why they would think so, because I'm willing to lay money that those idiots are eventually going to sink the ship they're cruising on by screwing something up very badly and costing the publisher a lot of money. But for now, management seems just as obstinate and doltish as the dingbats you've described. Of course you're not a good fit. You're professional and they are not. Well, there are plenty of other places where there *are* professionals, and don't let anyone kid you otherwise. Some work environments are poorly set up, but plenty of others aren't. My suggestion is that when you interview, take a good look around, ask for a tour, and ask if it's possible for you to see the spot where you'd be working. |
| Lula | Posted – 5/4/2008 2:46:23 AM | show profile Having worked in a lot of different environments (a LOT of very DIFFERENT environments), I'm not hearing anything from your coworkers that I haven't heard before. Not to say they're right and you're wrong, of course. But also not to say that you're right and they're wrong. I think Matt hit it closest with his "not a good fit" assessment. Fact is, workplaces vary within the industry as well as without. Your coworkers should be your team, inter- and intra-departmentally. If they're not, then you should look elsewhere. (And if they're breaking the law, well, then you can think about other options.) It sounds like you're doing medical-related writing? I'd venture to guess you could find a position somewhere doing this work without the sports bar element. So I wouldn't necessarily bail on the industry as a whole. But I would seriously consider the possibility that you might encounter this dilemma again - if not in the form of "douchebag" and "black motherfucker" and the smell of coffee, then something else (well, you'll always have to fight the smell of God's nectar...). The fact is, very few jobs are perfect and we're often forced to adapt to our environment. We each have to decide our own limitations and be willing to draw a line. When I got sick of putting up with bosses who felt it was appropriate to cheat on overtime (and ask me to go along), and sleep with their employees (and change clothes in front of us after a f--- break during lunch), well, I up and quit and went into business for myself. Hell, if anyone's gonna be douchebag around me, it's going to be me. Thing is - I still have to put up with editors who refuse to take 15 seconds to email "no, thanks," and clients who feel it's acceptable to simply not pay because their wife or nephew or whoever had an uninformed opinion about my work...etc. Point is: life is full of difficulties. You need to pick your battles, and this one seems like a fairly innocuous one in the grand scheme of things. But if it feels insurmountable to you, then it likely is. Leave this job behind when you can, and in the meantime recognize that what they need to do their work simply isn't compatible with what you need to do your work. Best of luck. |
| Marie | Posted – 5/4/2008 9:20:16 AM | show profile In trade publications, there's a lot less respect for the editorial staff--the sales staff is king. They get offices, the editorial staffers, who truly need to concentrate are in a bullpen. I realize your problem is with the creative production team, but the principle is the same. So I doubt that this is anything against you personally, just your function. But with language you're being subjected to, you have a legal issue aside from a garden-variety complaint, because you're now being subjected to a "hostile work environment." Try to find another work station--case the joint. If you can't find another place or work at home, talk to your supervisor one more time. Then go to HR and if you have to not only bring up the noise but the "hostile work environment." Sometimes HR acts only when there's a legal issue at stake. And do look for another job. No, not all environments are like this, but I will say that you do need to put up with a little noise almost everywhere. If you need dead silence to write and report, then yes, I think you need to think about the freelance life or an arrangement where you can work at home. Personally, I find a low undercurrent of noise (not what you're being subjected to) helps my work. It's calming. |
| Marie | Posted – 5/4/2008 9:33:51 AM | show profile Oh, yes. Don't mention the coffee thing again. But if you can move your work station, that problem too will go away. I understand it--to me the smell of microwaved food triggers the same response, but I would never bring that up as a complaint. People gotta eat a hot lunch! |
| rochelle, rochelle | Posted – 5/5/2008 3:38:05 AM | show profile Let me get this straight: You hate the smell of coffee, but you love cappuccino? Don't they both smell the same? And mellow jazz is intolerable but new-age music is fine? All this makes me wonder what your real issues are. Let's face it, as an ea, you're near the bottom of the food chain, and as someone who has been there, my advice is to plug your headphones into the music you prefer and concentrate on your work rather than on what's going on around you. And as someone who's had to deal with similar complaints from staff, you're not winning any bonus points with your editor. I wish I could be more supportive, but in my 20-plus years of experience, I've found that most magazine and book publishers' offices are wide open and only top-level managers have private offices. Even as a freelancer, you don't have total control over outside noise, especially in the city. Construction is ongoing, and you never know when a neighbor is going to take up the drums or the trombone and spend the entire day practicing! |
| writesonwater | Posted – 5/5/2008 4:23:15 AM | show profile While I'm sympathetic, I have seen an attitude of boisterous and non-PC behavior prevail at a number of places. Racial comments are TOTALLY inappropriate. If I was in charge, I'd do something about that. However, coffee brewing is the way it is. There's a woman where I am now who makes a really garlicky TV dinner for lunch every day and it wafts all over. Much as I like garlic, not when I'm working. But the microwave is where it is. If you were allergic, I'd ask to be relocated on that grounds. get it, grounds? So bring your cappucino maker and let that help. As to noise levels, try doubling up with good earplugs and headphones. If it's not noisy colleagues it's something else. A train, sirens, customers. For a while I found a newsroom scanner intolerable. Now I hardly hear it -- gettin' old. The job market being what it is you might learn to live with it until you get a more sedate post -- I've heard book publishers may be more quiet, but I don't know that. Fact is, you work with people who are valued for their creativity and who sound like they suffer from a deplorable excess of personality. I'm guessing that if their music, jokes, humor were more to your taste they wouldn't be quite so insufferable perhaps? The other thing is that there will always be people who get on the nerves at work. Not always for sound -- sometimes people smell weird, or groom bad, or act sinister or creepy, or (insert offensive behavior here). Maybe you can tell yourself, "Thank goodness they don't (whatever) here." You might not think so, but it probably could be worse ;) |
| sssuedio | Posted – 5/5/2008 2:32:07 PM | show profile Thanks for all the replies. I will work on growing up and finding an office that better fits me. No sense being unhappy in my work environment. To address the coffee: I mentioned smell, but the larger issue is the fact that they have a coffee maker at their desk. Why not just use the one in the lunch room like everyone else? My cappuccino machine was officially labeled too noisy, which really proved my point. If my manager says live with it, well that's what I have to do. And I don't want to let the 40 somethings who act 20 somethings down any longer by staying. Every day I stay, their "countdown to when SHE leaves" gets bigger. It doesn't specify me, but it does refer to me by full name on their countdown on their myspace pages. It's the office bet now that March Madness is over. I just can't imagine doing something so immature at 47 (or 32, 39, 35ish, 41, and 44, in all). I wonder if the folks at myspace know they should be gearing their ads toward middle-aged, balding, bachelor production designers who think quiet-loving editors are bane of their existance. Kind of funny, actually. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 5/5/2008 5:08:48 PM | show profile High school lives. It's clear they have taken a mass dislike to you, and are being backed in this by management. It's one, unpleasant, thing to be so disliked and they may have a reason or two -- but listening to racist, sexist garbage is unacceptable, no matter how much else one has to adapt to "creativity." Get another job ASAP and suss out the working conditions *somehow* before you sit down on Day One. |
| writerandeditor | Posted – 5/5/2008 10:24:43 PM | show profile Your subsequent replies paint a different picture than your initial post, but the bottom line remains the same: You're the odd man out, and you should find a more suitable working environment. Your situation sounds unfortunate, and you do have my sympathies. (I have to admit that I first thought you were being unrealistic.) A noisy work environment is one thing -- a hostile one is quite another. Since your management seems unwilling to assist you, it sounds like your best bet is to find a new one. My advice is to try to leave on good terms and hope that if nothing else, you will get a good recommendation out of the deal. Not all publishing companies are filled with racist remarks and humiliating countdowns. They all are filled with coffee and noise, however, so I would get used to that. Good luck to you. |
| snappiness | Posted – 5/6/2008 5:30:45 PM | show profile My my, it looks like we've attracted the interest of one of OP's production workers. |
| rochelle, rochelle | Posted – 5/6/2008 6:48:30 PM | show profile jeez, give her a break. she's just starting out. not everyone is fortunate enough to come out of the womb fully formed and flawless. |
| beenthere | Posted – 5/7/2008 1:51:25 PM | show profile You are being harrassed and subjected to a hostile work environment. The fact that there is a MySpace page counting down when you leave gives you strength. What I mean is -- document EVERYTHING. Dates, names, conversations, take snapshots of the MySpace page, hell bring a tape recorder in and record them so you have it as evidence (as examples of what you are being subjected to). Then, go see an employment lawyer. I'm sure one would be more than happy to take your case. You've asked to be moved, you've asked them to be quieter, you've spoken with your supervisor, you are subjected to rules that do not apply to them, you are forced to listen to racial slurs and obsenities, and essentially now have a virtual "hit" page dedicated to when they can gleefully rejoice that they forced you to quit. This by any stretch is not acceptable office behavior. You are being targeted. GO GET A LAWYER. NOW. BEFORE IT GETS WORSE. I highly doubt you'd get a respectable reference from this employer should you job hunt. This is not a bridge you need to preserve. |
| fake.it.til.you.make.it | Posted – 5/7/2008 5:12:01 PM | show profile I totally agree with beenthere. This is bad. Document everything you can and start looking for another job ASAP. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 5/7/2008 5:47:21 PM | show profile A good labor attorney will tell you quickly what to do and whether you have a case...you might be able to quit but get some severance out of these losers. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 5/9/2008 1:43:42 PM | show profile Good Grief Don't listen to the ridiculous suggestion that you get a lawyer. People are so quick to sue. The time and energy you would spend in court would be much better spent finding a new job in an environment which makes you comfortable. If you have the She Sued Her Employer stigma attached to you, the 7 second retelling of Why should make sense to those who hear it (and they will). "She overheard someone use the word 'cocksucker' and they taunted her on myspace" does not fit the bill. And by the by, why are you sitting at work e-stalking your colleagues? (For the sake of your sanity, I sincerely hope e-stalking these guys isn't how you spend your down time at home. That would be really sad.) The best advice for you on this thread is to accept the bad fit and move on. |
