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Topic: office etiquette
| Author | Message |
| Marie | Posted – 5/9/2008 4:23:50 PM | show profile If she gets fired, she could use the "hostile work environment" and harassment, both of which are illegal, to get more money in the severance package, or any money at all. No one is suggesting an all-out lawsuit. If she's forced to quit because of the environment, she could still be eligible to collect unemployment given the circumstances, even if she quit. Lawyers can be very useful in both these circumstances. Contacting a lawyer doesn't mean filing a lawsuit. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 5/9/2008 4:45:50 PM | show profile If she gets fired, she could use the "hostile work environment" and harassment, both of which are illegal, to get more money in the severance package, or any money at all. No one is suggesting an all-out lawsuit. If she's forced to quit because of the environment, she could still be eligible to collect unemployment given the circumstances, even if she quit. Lawyers can be very useful in both these circumstances. Contacting a lawyer doesn't mean filing a lawsuit. **************** It's an entry level position. Even if she were fired, she would be better off focusing her energy on finding a new job rather than paying a lawyer to fight over a few pennies. And frankly, she hasn't been harassed, at least not according to anything she has posted thus far. If overhearing the word "cocksucker" damages her to the point of feeling harassed, she would do better to stop listening in on other people's conversation and researching their myspace pages in order to be further offended. Wear your headhones, and stop goggling the names of those you dislike. No need to take "hostile work environment" to the extreme. After all, if it were that bad, she would have mentioned it in her opening post. She only pulled that nugget out of the bag when the tide of this thread turned against her. That says it all. Yes, curse words have no place in an office environment. But she (and others) need to face a bit of reality. If everyone else there is happy and get their jobs done to the satisfaction of their supervisors, going on a crusade to force the company to legally do your bidding is preposterous. Bringing in a lawyer for something so trivial is no way to build a career. |
| Marie | Posted – 5/9/2008 5:01:48 PM | show profile I disagree. If she's out of a job, she'll need money, and unemployment, both of which a little gentle lawyering can bring. |
| BruisePristine | Posted – 5/9/2008 6:20:26 PM | show profile Hmmm If you go a few posts back, you'll find that I was in a similar situation -- except my boss changed the rules to try to push me out of the workplace. There is a term for this, called "constructive discharge." I am not sure whether your situation is constructive discharge. Sure, I worked with assholes too, but it was my boss who ultimately changed the rules of the game because he wanted me gone. Did your boss make a clear change to your workplace that any "reasonable person" would find to prohibit work? Before you do anything, speak to an attorney. I did not do this, and as a result, will not be able to collect unemployment, because you need to follow up on a constructive discharge case soon after it happens. I am also not going to sue because my boss blackballs former colleagues as if his life depended on it. He has done this to several other women he hired before, and according to him, this one broke into his bank account, and that one trashed his good name, yadda yadda. You really have to consider whether making a big deal out of it is worth it, or not. 9 times out of 10, it's not. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 5/9/2008 7:05:07 PM | show profile A good attorney would advise this woman if she is facing anything unusual and how, if at all, this environment is contributing to a constructive discharge. That tactic is not uncommon. Better to learn early in your career when to suck it up and when, in fact, you *legally* don't have to. Sneering at the OP does not mitigate listening to filth in the workplace. Suing can certainly be a total waste of time and energy; negotiating a softer landing for yourself when you may be in the middle of a big push out the door is a different story. Employers know full well what they are doing. If the OP's work was sub-par she would have been fired by now. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 5/9/2008 7:28:19 PM | show profile "Gentle Lawyering" costs money. If for instance this company has a house attorney - and in a sea of cubes that's very possible - they will bleed this girl dry if it comes down to a real challenge of collecting unemployment. How much should a 23 year old (that's a guess) spend to collect her $250.00 per week for 13 weeks (or whatever it is these days)? It isn't realistic. Frankly, it is bad advise, unless she has a personal contact who is willing to talk to her for free. But really, unemployment isn't even the issue. She has a job and has no threat of being fired. Telling her quit and do the "hostile environment" battle is bad advice. Really bad, and irresponsible. The best advice to her on this thread is to put the headphones back on, work to the best of her abilities, and look for a new postion. |
| Marie | Posted – 5/9/2008 8:00:20 PM | show profile True. But paying a lawyer a few hundred dollars to write a letter or get on the phone is often necessary to get anything. And most companies, at least in New York, don't fight these things too much. It's too much trouble, especially if she has evidence that certain things were going on. I wasn't telling her to quit (if I did, I mistyped)/ I would never to tell someone that. But if she quits or is forced out, a little legal help could make a difference in whether she gets severance or unemployment. And I think we all can agree that when you're out of work, you need money. |
| spny744 | Posted – 5/9/2008 11:31:24 PM | show profile I would make a movie and post on you tube.... or you could bring your very own boom box! |
| sssuedio | Posted – 5/11/2008 12:45:58 AM | show profile Vox-o, FYI, I learned of the Myspace bet through a co-worker who had the decency to fill me in, so spare me your witty banter about how I'm sad and wasting my time googling my co-workers. Funny how you don't think it sad that 40 somethings have a Myspace page. Not to mention that the countdown calendar is hanging on their wall. Right. And I'm the one who has to grow up. If you want to think of me as immature so be it, but I assure you that if I were black and were subject to the phrases I've heard, they would STFU right quick at the threat of a lawsuit. But it's cool. Thank you for reminding me that I am a piece of shit editorial assistant who should put up and shut up with behavior I wouldn't accept from drunken frat boys. The only thing I've learned is to avoid this publisher and that I'm not right for this office. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 5/11/2008 1:10:40 AM | show profile Vox-o, FYI, I learned of the Myspace bet through a co-worker who had the decency to fill me in, so spare me your witty banter about how I'm sad and wasting my time googling my co-workers. Funny how you don't think it sad that 40 somethings have a Myspace page. Not to mention that the countdown calendar is hanging on their wall. Right. And I'm the one who has to grow up. If you want to think of me as immature so be it, but I assure you that if I were black and were subject to the phrases I've heard, they would STFU right quick at the threat of a lawsuit. But it's cool. Thank you for reminding me that I am a piece of shit editorial assistant who should put up and shut up with behavior I wouldn't accept from drunken frat boys. The only thing I've learned is to avoid this publisher and that I'm not right for this office. ************************** I never said you are a "piece of shit" EA. I didn't even come close to saying that. I did say you are very, very young; your putting words in my mouth shows I am right. Your melodrama weakens your part of the conversation. Furthermore, I AM black. And I have heard worse than anything you've ever heard and have ever imagined. And I have seen and experienced things you won't even read about. Silly girl. Going there doesn't help your case. Don't insult me with your "if I were..." nonsense. You have no idea what sort of person you'd be wearing my skin, nor do I know who I'd be wearing yours. As for whether a 40 year old is sad to have a myspace page.... well, frankly I don't care how a person gets entertainment on their off-hours. Many people do a lot of things I personally consider ridiculous. Then again, those people can likely say the same of me. I do not study the habits of my co-workers, and you should refrain from doing it as well. Your post to me is over the top, inaccurate, immature, and far too melodramatic. Maybe that is why you can't get along in your work environment. I suggest you examine yourself from within. |
| BruisePristine | Posted – 5/11/2008 3:38:07 PM | show profile I gotta agree with Vox - who the eff cares if they have a MySpace page? One of my favorite social groups in my town is run by an older woman, and she and all of her promoters have MySpace. It's a great marketing tool, and I think, if done well, is a smart networking move, too. The more I think about it, the more I believe that suing would be a mistake. You haven't told me anything suggesting their actions are illegal. At attorney, if you can afford one, can help you determine whether you have a case, but be warned that "constructive discharge" cases are very difficult to win. I've spent the past week reading about employment law. I'm pretty sure, the more I learn, that you don't have a case. If you get fired, so what? You'll get unemployment, and you'll look for a new position. You have now learned what sort of work environment you DON'T want. I'm 25. I'm glad I held the sh*t job I did because I learned tons -- and even more when I started posting here, and the older+wiser informed me. You're 23. It's a great gift to learn this when you're young. No one is calling you a piece of shit. It's a forum. We're just here to help one another. I also think you might need to be firmer with your editor. There is a way to approach this so you don't look like you're whining: "Mrs. V., unfortunately I seem to have a bit of difficulty concentrating with music and sports going on. I have several ideas for how I can make this work. If I work at home one day a week, my productivity will double. If I am permitted to also listen to music, I will more effectively be able to block music from Z, and I do believe the quality of my work will go up." Etc., Etc.The trick to getting your way is to phrase it as something that will help your employer, because your employer doesn't care about you - she cares about the bottom line. ****Caveat: Your employer might react to this irrationally, i.e. "Yeah you can have this work arrangement. No you can't. Yes you can. Today your job is Y, tomorrow it's Z. They can have music, but you have to act like you're in church. Then, you know you need to get the eff out. If you're so talented, it's their loss, isn't it? |
| Marie | Posted – 5/11/2008 4:32:24 PM | show profile Again, no one is suggesting she sue. Contacting a lawyer to negotiate decent severance or any severance, is eons away from suing. People hear the word lawyer and immediately jump to lawsuit. There are several intermediate stages. Court is the last place these cases end up. She does have grounds under "hostile work environment." Whether it's worth it to pursue that is another matter that only she can decide. I'd say if she can get out of there and collect unemployment, that's probably enough. |
| beenthere | Posted – 5/11/2008 5:56:45 PM | show profile I was not suggesting she sue. She needs to know what rights she does have if she is fired or if they blackball her from getting other jobs. What if the mag is one of 20 that a parent company owns? She applies for another job and is denied because her editor gives a bad reference, which may be unfounded. Or, suppose she job hunts, and HR does a quick google search on her and the MySpace page pops up? It's a red flag and will most likely cost her the job. She needs to know what to do to protect herself should the situation get worse. Which it most likely will. Or if there have been any other complaints filed against her company. I had an issue a few years back, sought advice of counsel, and--GASP--he was NOT surprised at what I told him and in fact had representative a number of employees against the company. I am also surprised at the lack of compassion or understanding by many posters, who seem to feel that unjust and unprofessional behavior within the office setting is completely normal. I wonder if the responses would be different if the poster was a mid-level employee with 10 years of experience. It seems most are focusing on the fact that this is her first job. Who gives a crap! Unacceptable *is* unacceptable. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 5/11/2008 7:38:07 PM | show profile Hey Bruise ... I think that the MySpace page is about the OP, which is why she cares about it. From reading the rest of the thread, it appears that they are counting down until the OP quits and making derogatory comments about her in the process on the myspacepage. That coupled with the calendar that is in the office sounds like harassment to me. I'd definitely be perturbed if my co-workers started a website/blog about me. |
| BruisePristine | Posted – 5/11/2008 10:03:19 PM | show profile Ok, gotcha, that's a different story, especially if the MySpace uses her real name. (But I still don't think MySpace is limited to a specific age group, and I also think if you work in publishing, you should NEVER use your real name on MySpace if it's not work-related.) I'm only 4 years in, so not so far from entry-level myself. I've worked in a bunch of bad environments, and have sympathy for that. I guess I'm pretty hung up on what is and isn't worth it to get into with a lawyer. As far as references, good or bad go, the law sides with the employee. If the employer gives a negative reference, it can be construed as slander. (Is that right? I think...) So IMO, best-case scenario is a voluntary quit with a great new job lined up, second best is a termination with unemployment and the OP getting a confirmed good reference. I still think it's worth it for the OP to try to get the situation to work in her favor first, by arranging a telecommute option, different hours, or permission to enjoy her workspace as others are so obviously enjoying theirs. It isn't fair that some folks can listen to music but others can't -- unless, of course, the folks prohibited are in telesales or something like that where they realistically couldn't. |
| detour_memphis | Posted – 5/12/2008 10:51:15 AM | show profile Ohh Miss Sssuedio Didn't Try to go the RACE Route If she was black - that's funny!! Miss. Little White Girl - you are not and this shows your true colors. You are upset because you can't use your powers to make these guys stop their actions. Wake up Miss. Thang - you don't run the world!! You need to find you another job or learn that you can't get your way!!! If you were black, you would already be gone!! |
| JackieRo | Posted – 5/12/2008 10:58:45 AM | show profile Sssuedio, I was in a similar sitation with my co-workers a few months ago. I worked for a black publication (I am black) and there was horrible tension in the office because I was not an Obama supporter in a VERY pro-Obama office. In this case, the pressure was coming from my boss. The unspoken is often 100 times worse than the spoken. I know what you're going through, so don't let what people are saying here about you being so young and needing to adjust to everyone else discourage you. I agree with you that certain things are protected (like calling someone a racial slur) and other things are not. If you need a little bit of peace to get your job, then it's your employer's responsibility to make sure that your needs are also met. If it doesn't work out, then it's time to find something, anything, else, to keep your sanity. No one, NO ONE, regardless of their age or job title, should be subjected to a MySpace hit list. If schools can take criminal action against kids making MySpace hit lists, I don't see why you wouldn't have some backing with your employers. |
| JackieRo | Posted – 5/12/2008 11:04:47 AM | show profile Oh calm down detour_memphis. I took it that she was making a point about protected speech and you should too. My God, why do my "people" always freak out when mentioning the disparity of racial slurs (VERY protected) to say...calling someone a fat pig (which is not even remotely protected, but just as harmful)? Harassment is harassment in whatever form. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 5/12/2008 11:56:37 AM | show profile Jackie Ro has a great story You should totally find a publication (like Slate or somewhere) an write an essay about your experience in an office of Obama supporters. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 5/12/2008 12:03:46 PM | show profile So can one only be offended by racial slurs if you're POC?? Is there an argument being presented that the OP shouldn;t be offended by racial slurs being used in her office because she is not a person of color or a member of the ethnic group in question? I'd definitely be perturbed if I were working in an office and I heard racial, gender, sexual orientation or age - based slurs. I think the OP has a legitimate issue. If it were me, I'd definitely want to at least speak to a lawyer. But I think the biggest issue is tracking down a new job. |
| intraining | Posted – 5/12/2008 6:37:02 PM | show profile JackieRo I doubt very seriously you're black, so stop trying to make your case stronger by using race. |
| JackieRo | Posted – 5/12/2008 8:13:40 PM | show profile How does one determine someone's race or even gender based on a BBS post? |
| intraining | Posted – 5/12/2008 9:34:00 PM | show profile You can't, but generally when people throw in the "By the way I'm..." comment, they do it to give support to an otherwise weak argument. Oh, and it's almost always in cases where the "minority" is supporting a member of the majority. |
| detour_memphis | Posted – 5/13/2008 9:14:37 AM | show profile Whatever JackieRo Whatever - go ahead and be this girl's friend and feel sorry for her. If you and her were in trouble, she would be for herself and not you!!! She would sell you out like a hair band from the 80s!!! Anyhoo - you are dismissed!!! Back to this silly post and this silly little girl!! Go find another job where you are running things!! |
| Grateful Deadline | Posted – 5/13/2008 1:05:11 PM | show profile Whoa, or you're going to cause a world shortage of exclamation marks. |
