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Topic: Truck Drivers Need Help to Lower Gas Prices!
| Author | Message |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 4/28/2008 11:26:39 PM | show profile Gasoline is traded in the global market. Unless we want to further subsidize gasoline (and become ever more dependent and send more greenhouse gas emissions), there's little that can be done to reduce gas prices, unless we get OFF of the stuff (which won't be easy but will be required at some point anyway). |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 5:32:29 AM | show profile I don't really have much of an opinion on this, except to say America depends too much on trucking. And I am not going to categorize all truckers as members of one political-ideological group except to say I grew up in a place with lots of conservative/libertarian/Republican truckers. Also, as a liberal, I am not against the idea of governments providing "handouts" to people. But now truckers want handouts from the government in fuel subsidies? Why not just let the "free market" decide the price of your toilet paper? Yeah, it's OK to condemn other people who get "gov-mint freebies" until it becomes you that needs or wants them, right? Nothing will turn a conservative into a liberal more than need and an expectation hat the government should intervene when it's personal, right? (I ma not referring to anyone here, it's just a general observation -- that free market types, libertarians, and conservatives have a "breaking point" and when they reach it they go begging for the big, inefficient government to do something to save them. Then when they don't feel they need "freebies" they go back to trying to drown the government from giving "freebies" to other people. |
| PluckyPane | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:21:09 AM | show profile i have to disagree with this argument even though just last week i was pro-truck driver. the reason i have for that is whether they receive a rebate or a handout to cut the costs of fuel, it will still be you and me, middle class shmuck, paying through the nose. i get that they're hurting. i get that we need them. i get all of that. but the fact remains that while fuel prices were cheap for years and years, the prices still went up. i sound heartless. i will get the criticism. but i'm kind of surprised that more people aren't angry that the truckers are looking for concessions. you and me will end up funding those concessions PLUS the cost of food will stay high. double the profit. the rich independent truckers are smart. they will have saved for a rainy day and invested wisely when they had the money flowing in. they managed the risk so the skyrocketing costs hurt but don't destroy. the smart trucker will use this setback as a challenge to overcome the odds while the lazy trucker will look to the gov't to bail them out. there are more than enough ways for a trucker (or any business) to set themselves up to minimize risk and insulate them from profit swings. |
| Moderate | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:24:07 AM | show profile "there's little that can be done to reduce gas prices" Ugo Hillary assured us that she can fix the gas prices by taxing the oil companies. Note: Customers pay all taxes in the form of price increases. |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:31:34 AM | show profile >> IMO it is still the best place in the world to be living in inspite of all our problems. << The numbers don't support this. Americans do not live the longest, they do not have the lowest infant mortality rates, they take less vacation than almost anyone in the developed world. Considering that like 75% of Americans don't own passports, it's no surprise they make uninformed judgements on quality of life as compared to other countries, especially Europe. Paul Krugman accurately illustrated how the 20-year-old belief of the stagnant European economy is less relevant anymore. The euro is worth a lot more than the dollar, Europeans owe less money and they are generally much happier and more staified (with less) than Americans. Believe me if I could find a Spanish woman to marry I'd be living and working in Madrid tomorrow. Some of my family already left the USA and I currently work abroad -- so I did put my money where my mouth is and I see that the Ameircan Dream is a myth and self-delusion in a lot of ways. |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:34:27 AM | show profile >> Chucho, you seem to be full of knowledge about just about everything, so tell me, if the US relies too heavily on trucking, well by all means tells us an alternative to moving, product, mail, food, medicine and medical supplies, etc., around the country to those who need these things. << I only comment on things I feel I have something to contribute to, so perhaps that's why you think I'm a "know-it-all" since I just ignore posts where the subjects are beyond me. The alternative to trucks are trains and sea freight. They take longer but they pollute less. If we had a national, modern rail infrastructure you could use these routes to move people and goods at the same time. But I'm a realist, we are a car society, so, yah, the alternatives are almost unimaginable. |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:37:13 AM | show profile >> "But now truckers want handouts from the government in fuel subsidies? Why not just let the "free market" decide the price of your toilet paper?" << I'm not basing that on anything except that truckers are getting shafted by fuel prices. So either the prices of goods go up, or you offset the costs through subsidies. I have no doubt that every trucker in Ameirca would welcome such subsidies if they were offered to them (even if such subsidies came in the form of reductions in other costs to offset growing fuel prices). That's the only point I'm making here. |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:39:06 AM | show profile Of course, we could always lift the government welfare checks cut to the oil industries :) |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 11:47:06 AM | show profile > Lay off the beer,McD's and ciggs maybe you can afford the fuel cost. << He makes a little bit of a point here. Americans are so used to the consumer driven economy that i think they've lost track of real austerity. So we pay more for the crap we buy. Big deal. I guess it's easy for me because I don't shop as a form of leisure activity, but America could tighten their belts a lot and still be living more or less near the top of the heap. Of course, I buy clothes like once a year (off season), don't own a car, have no debt and don't shop for pleasure, so it's easy for me to say these things. I can't imagine what some bored suburban denizen is going to do if s/he can't go the mall every other day to buy crap s/he doesn't need AND has to pay more at the fuel pump to pay for their flight from the urban center where his or her job is located. And before you snap at me, understand this: I have no sympathy for people who have made these choices. |
| chucho | Posted – 4/29/2008 12:41:15 PM | show profile My short answer: It's the same type of argument about why the media shouldn't play the role of accentuating what works but rather what does not work -- that the media's role is to help raise the profile of problems in society not play the cheerleader for things that are not problems. In other situations and to other people I have said that having lived abroad (in one case a rather unpleasant place) has made me more patriotic. But when I'm addressing an audience of people who think "America is the Best G-D Place in the World and Don't You Forget It" should I then indulge that sense of false pride by listing reasons why I love Ameirca? Or should I place a reality check by pointing out that America is not "No. One" in everything but in fact ranks low in comparison to other developed countries on several key social indicators. And, yes, I do often point out that American get the system they choose out of their own free will. This is a fundamental principle, because a lot of people in this world have much less individual power to effect change in a peaceful manner. So when I say things like "if Americans choose McCain then they deserve his polices" it's not just a platitude -- I ma trying to make an important point abotu individual responsibility. When we choose to live in a "free market society" that relies on consumer spending and persistent non-sustainable growth, then we have to accept the consequences or choose to change them. I am down on America right now because instead of examining core personal lifestyle choices, there seems to be a resilience toward defending the way of life rather than changing it. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 4/29/2008 10:43:49 PM | show profile anovel said >A free market society (in brief, very broad topic) doesn't necessarily require lifestyle changes, but it does require technological changes, advances, and implementation etc.< Wow, that's quite a statement, put so simply as a matter of fact. It suggests that as long as we keep up technologically, all will be well. It ignores the fact of finite resources, too many people, etc. Let's say in the extreme example, you have 1000 square feet of space and you have 1000 people living on it. You simply can't physically support those 1000 people on that 1000 square feet of space. That's the extreme example, but given our consumption needs (especially in the "developed" world and even more especially in the US), each of us requires a lot of spaces and resources to live the way we have AT OUR GIVEN LEVEL OF LIFESTYLE (see I learned to use all caps from our token right wingers to make my point more powefully). We can't change our lifestyle enough to "save" ourselves from destroying our one and only home. We also can't (in my opinion) save our planet entirely through technological innovation. In my opinion, we need both, as much as possible and as fast as possible. Especially with energy, the hype of the past has never been realized. Maybe this time will be different, but I woudn't bet my life on it. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 4/30/2008 9:17:24 AM | show profile Plucky, I'm inclined to agree with you, to a point. I agree that a recession or a time when expenses are increasing faster than salaries is a great time for clearing out the professions. Recessions are good for cleaning house. Like the mortgage crisis. A lot of people made a lot of fast, easy money, and now they are downsized. It cleans out the cancer, in most cases. Some cancers do hang on. But the gas prices are really hurting everyone. I don't agree that truck drivers should get subsidies either because I think they will get double profits like you suggested, but I do think we can rally with them to do something about the high gas prices. It may turn out that the gas prices won't go down, but it will force us, as a group, to examine better ways to do it. Maybe we all move toward a train society or something else not yet imagined. It will spark change in whatever form. And that's coming from a person who vehemently defies reducing driving because that me and my DH's favorite outlet. Suggesting we not take weekend drives is like suggesting we never read or breathe. |
