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Topic: I'm about to lose my cool!
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| JeanMarie | Posted – 5/20/2008 6:16:31 PM | show profile I live in a two-bedroom apartment in the midwest (no, not in the middle of nowhere).. rent just went up to $480 and includes cable/landline/broadband/parking/trash/water. |
| PluckyPane | Posted – 5/20/2008 6:24:33 PM | show profile jeanmarie, i'm jealous! but i'm curious...are the salaries equally as deflated as the cost of living? my wife and i are always looking to reloc to somewhere calmer than here. |
| westsidestory | Posted – 5/20/2008 6:24:44 PM | show profile one point of agreement with seattleme I'd have to agree that it's good for a writer to get out of NY for a bit - provided NY has done the job of toughening you up. I myself had a good stint in California that helped me to grow professionally, but I would not have gotten the gigs I got without my credentials as a "new york" writer. Publishing is diffuse (those 1,000 dailies are truly out there) but NY has so many startups I feel it is a good place to learn and network...which is probably why so many grads feel impelled to relocate here. |
| Jen480 | Posted – 5/20/2008 8:33:42 PM | show profile I can't believe this thread has more than 80 posts. When I last read it yesterday there were maybe 20, tops. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 5/20/2008 9:32:57 PM | show profile Newbie probably won't get job in a metro area. Outlying area, more jobs, rent's cheaper. My small town 40 minutes to Dallas, you can get a one-bedroom apt, bills paid, for $500. Also, magazines like Texas Monthly not likely for newbie, either. Smaller regional mags or trade pubs, possible. I like the advice to the chef. Same goes for journalism. I'm done sugarcoating it, because to succeed I write, edit and photograph my behind off. |
| Grateful Deadline | Posted – 5/20/2008 11:09:45 PM | show profile I'm an hour's drive from the Pacific Ocean, and the rents around here go for around $600 for a one-bedroom. That's about one week's pay for a beginning reporter at one of the small suburban dailies out here (there are four in the immediate area). >>Wouldn't the OP be better off moving to a smaller East Coast city that would allow him to be near NYC,<< I can't think of why, unless he needs to be near family. Journalists move all over the country. The New York papers hire from anywhere. I know people who've gone to the NYT from Tucson, Corpus Christi, Albuquerque, Seattle, Anchorage -- the same as the LA papers got people from Rochester, St. Paul, Philly, Miami, Detroit. The big papers see the whole nation as one big pond full of potential candidatesk, and they really do track the reporters and editors they like. Even smaller papers aren't so parochial about hiring; they can't afford to be. When I hired for a mid-size daily a couple of hours' drive from a major city, I advertised nationwide. For one job, I seriously considered candidates from New Mexico, Minnesota and Kentucky before hiring someone from Kansas. Also, while the small papers may or may not finance a move, the big papers nearly always do. There's a cap on the allowance, of course, but the amount is generous enough to cover a one-bedroom's worth of furnishings. I guess all this is incendiary talk, though, to someone who doesn't want to hear it. |
| mkelly | Posted – 5/21/2008 12:01:32 AM | show profile It's all me, Jen480. Once I show up on a thread, the party is on. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 5/21/2008 12:19:39 AM | show profile You people who say you live on the west coast and are paying less than 600 for a one be3droom, when exactly did you sign your leases? Be honest. Because since the crash of late 2007-early 2008, rents have skyrocketed. In Sacramento, look online at www.sacbee.com. Apartments admiteldly are cheaper, but have you ever SEEN a one bedroom Sacramento apartment? Most (successful) people in Sacramento rent homes--and those go for 1400 plus right now. Even for apartments, the rental market is brutal. You MUST have established credit. A credit score in the 700s (pref hight). You NEED a car. Don't even THINK about being a reporter without one. And hey--insurance! HAH! The most expensive in the nation--but it's bad all opver. Premiums are insane--especially for ANYONE under 30. Go ahead. Look it up. I run these numbers every day. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 5/21/2008 12:22:41 AM | show profile WritesonWater, ALL magazines need entry level staff for assistant editor and intern type positions. Even TEXAS MOnthly. Buty what the fuck. Try New Jersey MOnthly. Connecticut MOnthly. The Stamford Advoctae. That's about an hour train ride out of NYC. All regionals need at least one person to do the grunt work. Big small makes no diff. |
| candylilacs | Posted – 5/21/2008 2:16:43 AM | show profile You can get an apartment in the Bay Area for $800, less if you want a roommate. It's not that expensive. Just down the block from me are apartments for $600-$800 that aren't crime ridden and within a few blocks of water. So, don't let money stop you. ------ Dealing with being laid off, so you don't have to! www.laidoffjournal.com |
| worldofnatasha | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:50:01 AM | show profile i have a two bedroom house with a fenced-in yard, washer/dryer, dining room, driveway, in Los Feliz (hipster LA 'hood) for $1150. signed the lease in August 2005. people on my street live in smaller apts. w/o parking for c. $750. this is los angeles right in the middle of everything. you just need to ook around a bit and ou can find something great for cheap. |
| worldofnatasha | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:51:00 AM | show profile ps. what's up with Ghost changing his name to Keith? bizarre. |
| Grateful Deadline | Posted – 5/21/2008 12:29:46 PM | show profile >>You people who say you live on the west coast and are paying less than 600 for a one be3droom, when exactly did you sign your leases? Be honest.<< Those prices were advertised in yesterday's classifieds. |
| Grateful Deadline | Posted – 5/21/2008 1:04:13 PM | show profile >>Even for apartments, the rental market is brutal. You MUST have established credit. A credit score in the 700s (pref hight). You NEED a car. Don't even THINK about being a reporter without one. And hey--insurance! HAH! The most expensive in the nation--but it's bad all opver. Premiums are insane--especially for ANYONE under 30. << -- You don't need to establish credit to rent from an individual landlord. Live someplace other than an apartment complex run by a management company. When you rent from an individual, you may not even have to put down a deposit equivalent to the rent. -- A car is good to have, but you don't need a luxury-class limo to work as a reporter. You need something that runs. I see serviceable cars around here all the time for less than $1,500. Some papers still have a company car to borrow for assignments. -- Yes, car insurance is expensive. That's why insurance companies offer a monthly payment option, so young, low-income or bad-driver policyholders can buy it. None of this is prohibitive. It is even possible to live in apartment with nothing but a sleeping bag, towel, bar of soap and a dumpster-dive table for a week or two until that first paycheck arrives. I have known beginning reporters who worked out small advances when they got hired so they could buy the rock-bottom basics to get started. I don't understand why you are putting up all these smokescreens to achieving a goal. If someone wants to get a job in journalism, they'll do what it takes to get a job. Today is no different from 10, 20 or 30 years ago. We all started with nothing. It's not that bad. It's like camping for a couple of weeks. In short order, nothing becomes something. Likewise, many of us started out in tough economic times. I did. There was not a staff job to be had in my city when I graduated from college. I knew it was going to be hard -- it didn't take a professor or a school counselor to tell me so. After stringing for four papers for a year, I leveraged one of those gigs into an editorial assistant job, and in three months leveraged that into a reporting job. Long story short: You are not special in 2008. You do what you have to do to get a journalism job, like nearly everyone who came before you and who graduated with you. If you don't want to do it, then you don't get a journalism job. It's up to you. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 5/21/2008 1:17:21 PM | show profile No one's putting up any smokescreens, but no one's saying it's easy and anyone can do it. I don't know YOU'RE circustances but renting these days inCalifornia is HARD. You must have credit (excellent) and or a cosignor--unless you sublet, which is risky. And low rents are advertised all the time to get renters to come look at the place. Then the rent goes UP. I know, I lived in many places including twenty two years in California (also Nevada, Arizona, PR and New York City, and Brooklyn. It's not easy. And buying a car is expensive and expensive to insure and if you are under 30 it's VERY expensive. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 5/21/2008 1:19:10 PM | show profile The reason the rental market is competitive in California is because the housing crisis is the worst here in the nation. So rents are WAY up. And landlords won't rent to those with unestablished or bad credit--there are many of those, again, because people are foreclosing left and right (1 in every 10 homes in the state capitol, Sacramento). |
| foodlit | Posted – 5/21/2008 2:46:10 PM | show profile Roommates!!! Get roommates. Why on earth wouldn't you get as many roommates as you can stand to cut expenses? Seems like a nobrainer. Cut your expenses in half or more just by having at least one roommate. |
| candylilacs | Posted – 5/21/2008 3:25:11 PM | show profile Seeattleme, I don't know where you're getting you need to pay $1,200 in Stockton. I could pay that in the Bay Area and get a pretty sweet place. I rent the 1,200-square-foot second floor of a Victorian in the Bay Area (granted not SF, but hey...) for $1,000 in a good neighborhood where I have accidentally left my car unlocked and no homeless person took a nap there, or punks stole things out of it. (That stuff does occur in the more borderline neighborhoods.) It's pretty safe and actually pretty. Apartments down the road, as I said are $650-$800. And several of my coworkers live in Oakland and Alameda and pay less than $800 with few if any problems. You aren't likely to get those prices in SF without a roommate, but the East Bay isn't bad. ------ Dealing with being laid off, so you don't have to! www.laidoffjournal.com |
| jobhunter08 | Posted – 5/21/2008 4:03:24 PM | show profile In regards to roommates...here is an example of prices FOR ROOMS WITH ROOMMATES living in capitol hill (as a young 20-something person would) in dc: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/roo?query=capitol+hill&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max enjoy. Social life costs aren't factored into these budgets either. It is healthy to go out once in a while, either on a date or with your friends. |
| mkelly | Posted – 5/21/2008 4:12:55 PM | show profile Those DC rents all look reasonable for a major metro area to me, JobHunter-- but again, what does that have to do with our discussion? We're talking about newbies moving to far-flung areas to cut their teeth and work back towards metro areas. And, apparently, GhostWriter has taken our advice, because he or she has since disappeared from this thread. Probably moving to Rapid City, Beaumont, St. George or Claremont as we speak! I'm glad we could impart our wisdom. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:05:09 PM | show profile First of all, on the roomate issue: For a young person with a demanding job, I reccomend avoiding that scenario. Roomates can be hell, and for the damage they can do to your credit rating (unless bills are in their names, and most companies won't allow multiple names on bills), your psyche, damage to their space they rent out that you will be responsible for, etc., not to mention the emotional strain, especially if you have a tough schedule (most reporters do, and you will if you have multiple jobs to supplement that entry level income). Speaking of, as an entry level employee and even as an intern, you will be required to work long hours and weekends. Plus, after college, it's really the time you need to have a place of your own. If you must have roomates, try to make them people you know--not people who answer your ad in Craigs List . And NOT people you work with. You don't need a pair of loose lips on the job gossiping about the guy you had over the weekend before, or anything else, for that matter. Here is the link for the Stockton Bay Area rentals: Keep in mind (I covered Stockton, and Tracy, and Modesto) it has a rising crime rate, the number one auto theft rate in the nation--driving auto insurance up-- and there are good neighborhoods and VERY bad neighborhoods. The $800 range is VERY BAD. http://www.rentals.com/California/Stockton/Apartments-For-Rent.aspx There is a reason rents have gone up in places like Stockton and Modesto and that is because people moved OUT of the Bay Area because they couldn't afford it and they commute. Where you are finding these $600 dollar apartments is beyond me, I guess you can find anything anywhere if you actually live there, know people who live there, and have a job or a cosignor (mommy or daddy)--which doesn't always work and isn't always accepted from out of state (reason being suing mommy and daddy for any rent unpaid is impossible). (By the way, all the Bay Area papers are in a hiring freeze, as are the McClatchy papers, and the L.A. papers. DOn't take my word for it--it's all over the MB website.) Here is a link for the SF apartments I found. All appear to be over $1,000 a month. Again, as I have rented in SF--and this was back in the late 90s--you go through a very thorough process. Credit check, proof of earnings or a cosign, rental refernces, job references, pay stubs, tax forms, the whole bit. http://www.sf4rent.com/adone.php Again, if you have connections or a place to stay while you are searching for that Mission District "bargain", it's much easier. But we're talking about packing a sleeping bag and a toothbrush and hopping a freight train , right? I did the move across the country on nothing. And I would NEVER allow my children to do it. Not without a friend or relative, a contact, a good job, an apartment. No crazy roomates (I had one lock me out three times a week to fuck her boyfriend, another snort our rent money, another refuse to pay the phone bill and force me to move out rather than try to evict her (much more difficult than it sounds, and it requires an attorney). You also, if you are a young woman, need to think about your personal safety--where you live, how you'll commute, etc. Violent crime is up nationwide. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:07:44 PM | show profile If you have family on one side of the country who can fly you home in an emergency, cool. But that flight is going to be expensive. if your family can throw money into a bank account in case of an emergency, that's cool. Sucks if your parents drink 49 weeks out of the year and you're living on $300 dollars a week (editorial assistant at national women's magazine, circa early 90s, after taxes). Keep in mind that your parents health insurance will cover you until you are 25, but not if you live out of care facility region (see the Kaiser plan). Your health insurance at whatever job you may or may not get will not cover much (copays are increasing dramatically, an ER visit costs me $200 off the bat). Internships do not provide insurance, neither do most jobs in the service industry, and you'll still have to pay out of pocket for many procedures not covered --including most ER visits (unless you really are actually dying). 2008 DOES make you special. Landlords and corporations do not have money to throw around. Evictions are costly and a big deal, as are health benefits. The student loan companies are drowning in fraud --and recently trashed the credit ratings of several loan holders by hundreds of points --because of a clerical error! Many students are having to live at home because of these costs. Finally: on the whole dreamy notion of reporters moving across country...ain't happening. Because the only papers that aren't seeing a huge decline are the metro-focused papers. So execs want good solid metro coverage. That means people who live there who have lived there for a while. Nationals are competing with CNN, etc and are losing ground. And most papers and print organizations in general are laying off staff. If and when I spend 60 grand a year to send my kids to college (they'll probably go to Michigan or something public like that instead), I damn well expect good career counseling from these universities. While many schools have good programs, too many others do not. There's nothing wrong with calling attention to this issue if it is a problem. That's not whining, that's a part of problem solving (Not problem IGNORING, like our President's been doing for the past eight years). There is a big difference between blaming the system for a lack of opportunity and criticizing a system that does not provide equal opportunity. There's nothing wrong with being critical of our system. If these people are "whiners" then the suffragettes were all "whiners" as was Gloria Seinem, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennnedy, Malcolm X, etc. It starts with vocal complaints and frustration. And the class of 2008 has it TOUGH. No doubt about it. Ask any economist. I wouldn't trade places for a million bucks. Not that that will get you much of anything these days. I did it, I resist the urge to get all pissy and snooty and tell other people they can too. It was a different time, a different industry. And when we look back, we tend to recall the positive and not the negative. Most do not recall or wish to admit how often they called home for help, or how much help they had. I have a half dozen detailed journals to remind me how poor, miserable, stressed and isolated I felt. My children will never go through that. EVER. |
| wineaux | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:39:18 PM | show profile This thread is rather long-winded, and as usual, the personal attacks are appalling. The OP just wanted some advice on finding a job in this field, and is panic-stricken, as many of you have been in the media can relate to. Why do so many choose to be so superior and say such demeaning things. Keith, I had to stop reading the posts after awhile, but I have a couple of suggestions, questions that may have been repeated, but I have been in a similiar situation, so here are my thoughts: Forget the headhunters. They really find the majority of their hireable clientele in companies similiar to the ones that are seeking a candidate. Often, they are looking for a harder hitter than who already has the job somewhere else, and really don't often place entry-level employees. I dealt with a headhunter when I moved to the NYC area, and even with 15 years experience under my belt as a published writer, I felt the interviews were a waste of time. Have you considered getting a job just outside of NYC? Jersey, CT? I now work in CT, and there are often openings in many of the papers and mags, and it isn't nearly as cut-throat. The pay may be a little less, but it's a foot in the door and a way for you to get some respectable clips. And, it's just a short train-ride away. Additionally, if you do take a job at a smaller paper/mag a little out of town, have you considered supplementing your income with another job, maybe in the service indusry? I hate to sound like a broken record (I've suggested this to newbies before) but a great way to get larger amounts of cash for short hours is to take on a bartender/server job. Even a busser or food runner gets decent tips in NYC. Entry-level marketing is another great start. The pay may not be fantastic (usually around 10 to 14 an hour) but if you can find the right gig at a company that will be a starting rung on the ladder, it can lead to bigger and better things in the future. Summer is coming, and many companies are looking for interns. There have to be paid interns out there if you are diligent enough. Also, don't be afraid to look for journalism jobs outside of the journalism genre. Plenty of companies, corporations, etc... have publicity and marketing departments that love to hire recent journalism grads. I started as a writer and now do a great deal of publicity and marketing consulting and often deal with people in their permanent departments that have journalism degrees. I hope you find something soon. Don't give up! It's a tough business, but if you are truly meant to be in the business, you'll find a way. |
| onmyown | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:43:38 PM | show profile I don't know why I'm doing this, but here goes, one more time. I live in an upscale area of LA and pay $1,100 for a large one-bedroom (about 1,000sft), private parking. There are many apartments that go for less. To move in, I did not need clearance by the FBI--but I have rented from individual owners. I did have to fill out a credit report and, once accepted, pay one month's security deposit. My current landlord didn't even do the credit check because she liked me. And she hasn't raised my rent yet. You can live practically anywhere (except NYC, I guess) for an affordable price. And my recommendation was not to move cross country. Why can't a job-seeker move a couple of hours away, to an area that is much less expensive that NYC and might have smaller newspaper and magazine markets? (Note: Many smaller papers are doing better than the big ones these days because you can't go online to read local small-town news.) All of this is indeed a smoke screen. I also note that the OP said she was considering taking out a loan to go back to school for a master's degree. Why not take out a small loan for a couple of thousand instead to finance a move? |
| PluckyPane | Posted – 5/21/2008 5:46:23 PM | show profile let's kill the post, ok? there have been lots of suggestions given, and it's up to the op to make the decision for himself. some have said to look outside the industry and forge a path to journalism (me included) while others suggested moving to work at local niches. all good suggestions, but up to the op, who clearly didn't like any of the advice. do us veterans really need to quibble about rent prices and roommates days after the op changed his name and moved onto other posts? |
