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Topic: Does your looks hurt your chances at getting a job
| Author | Message |
| WordyBird | Posted – 6/4/2008 3:59:21 PM | show profile I cannot believe that in this day and age, there are those who still who perpetuate stereotypes about overweight people. Hate to inform you self-described assholes of this, but if you look at every profession, from the presidency right on down to the local barista, you will find competent, capable, and driven people of all shapes and sizes. What's more, I'm willing to lay money that a number of you aren't even correct in your assumption of what is and is not considered overweight, and think yourselves "average" when really, you're overweight. Jaysus, I very really get *angry* at people here, or write them off as idiots, but you people are damn ignorant. |
| chucho | Posted – 6/4/2008 4:29:57 PM | show profile Don't worry Wordy -- people who think like that don't get very far in their ladder climbing. They're forced to wear neckties (to impress other people) for the rest of their lives. Successful people are "people" people and that kind of stuff doesn't even cross their minds. |
| Marie | Posted – 6/4/2008 6:56:02 PM | show profile For what this is worth, I work for a major network, and we have at least two very fat women (recent hires) and several more fat guys on staff. No one cares. They do terrific work, and no one notices or cares about their weight. I think 1 or 2 of them may have been hired because of their weight, to show what a diverse, tolerant network we are. I'm serious. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 6/4/2008 11:58:14 PM | show profile ferdinand You are absolutely right to draw your comparison... but unrealistic. I don't take my apartment with me to negotiate for a job -- but truth be told, to look at it would indeed give you a clue about my potentially sloppy desk at work. The flaws a person can see (obesity) vastly outweighs the ones a person can't see (my dirty apartment). That's just the way it is, to cry foul about it is unrealistic. And at the end of the day, both are fair clues about a person's work habits and life. Employers simply never see my flaw. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 6/5/2008 12:00:39 AM | show profile Marie No one is proud to be an affirmative action hire. Don't believe me? Ask your 2-3 office chubs (out of a network staff of how many??) whether they were hired for the sake of "size-diversity," and how they feel about it. |
| coasttocoast | Posted – 6/5/2008 3:18:41 AM | show profile Vox-oh-no-you-didn't "The flaws a person can see (obesity) vastly outweighs the ones a person can't see (my dirty apartment). That's just the way it is, to cry foul about it is unrealistic." I think you mean: The flaws I can see vastly outweigh the ones I can't see. Generalization is the mark of a lazy thinker, and you shouldn't assume everyone else shares your superficial views. Personally, I'm of the opinion that "hidden" flaws like domestic abuse, moral depravity, and criminal activity are more grievous than obesity. Oh, and try telling a Samoan, for example, that their body type is the result of a lack of discipline. |
| barrio99 | Posted – 6/5/2008 9:44:51 AM | show profile I think this has to be a wind-up, it's so ridiculous. But if not, it's also interesting to know there are people like this in the world, judging without having a clue of anyone's experience outside their own. So shallow and just ignorant -- I hope I never meet you. Why in the world single out "fat" (what your definition is we can't know) people in the workplace? Smokers -- waste time on smoke breaks, stink, cough, cost money on health, offend others with the smoke Drinkers -- come in hung over, tired, less productive, co-workers have to pick up the slack, stink sometimes, more sick days Parents -- come in late, leave earlier, leave non-parents to take up the slack Skinny people with eating disorders -- spend all day obsessing about the carbs they ate at lunch, less on their work. Spend time in the bathroom vomiting or just obsessing, thus being unproductive. etc. etc. These are all generalizations too and unfair to people in all those categories who do not hurt anyone. for every lazy, annoying, undisciplined fat person is a lazy, annoying, undisciplined skinny person whose vice/problem/issue/self-destructive habit/poor character does not present itself as a protective layer around the body, announcing itself to the world. I really liked the wife-beater comparison, too. ok....just my two cents. Such a strange sentiment -- it's made me re-think what people think of me. Really, really interesting. I honestly didn't know people like you existed, except in fifth grade, when we didn't know better. |
| mkelly | Posted – 6/5/2008 10:09:13 AM | show profile Good lord... I leave this thread for two days, and look at the mess it's become. People don't hire other people for all sorts of reasons, some of them ridiculous. Focus on why somebody *should* hire you instead. Let's get back to the issue at hand: picking on Bree's bad attitude and the general lack of 'getting it' among all newbies, no matter what they weigh or whether they smoke. |
| snappiness | Posted – 6/5/2008 10:43:44 AM | show profile The fat people discussion is cracking me up. I don't know if you guys are serious or just flame-baiting but either way it's absolutely hilarious. Of course, the newbie baiting is pretty funny too. I'm feeling very jaded today. |
| Agirlwalksintoabookstore... | Posted – 6/5/2008 10:52:45 AM | show profile Good lord. I can't believe where this thread has gone! You know, in England, instead of calling it "affirmative action," they call it "positive discrimination." How's that for honesty? |
| chucho | Posted – 6/5/2008 11:40:42 AM | show profile >> You know, in England, instead of calling it "affirmative action," they call it "positive discrimination." How's that for honesty? << Who's "they"? I though they were called "quotas" in the UK. Besides affirmative action doesn't cover fat people or handicapped people. (Handicapped people are covered by anti-discrimination laws, but they don't get the voluntary form like minorities do.) |
| Marie | Posted – 6/5/2008 2:15:34 PM | show profile Hey, one of our many fat people just got a standing ovation for some enterprise reporting. Beat the pants off her thin counterparts. |
| chucho | Posted – 6/5/2008 2:51:44 PM | show profile David Cay Johnston is not thin, either, and he's probably a better and brighter reporter (and employee) than anyone on this board, including myself, of course. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 6/5/2008 3:06:28 PM | show profile Look at that. A fat person who does a good job. Of course the counter argument from the anti-fat crowd will be that she is single and has no life, so she had more time than the so-called normal person who has a life (you know, fat people don't have friends or dates) to work on the presentation. After all, other than her suicide or the next trip to McDonald's, what would she think about? |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 6/5/2008 4:16:01 PM | show profile who's the chick who's been covering the Hillary campaign for CNN? Cathy Crowley? She kicks ass. And she's no Kate Moss. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 6/5/2008 4:18:54 PM | show profile snappiness, maybe you can't pull it together in a professional setting. Some of us can. Some of us don't have to (you need to take a look at some of Hunter S. Thompson's drafts when he was baked in the early days). But some of us do it all the time and the proof is on our resumes (which is how we get hired and how we get our writing assignments)--we don't get these things based on our posts on Mediabistro. |
| snappiness | Posted – 6/5/2008 5:02:23 PM | show profile My point is if you're lazy about grammar then you have no business calling yourself a writer. Hunter S. Thompson did some creative stuff with it, just like Picasso with paint. And Cormac McCarthy. There's a difference between being lazy and being experimental. Don't worry, I have no trouble "pulling myself together" because I'm never a slob. And I'm not fat either. ;) |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 6/5/2008 6:34:30 PM | show profile No, this has nothing to do with Hunter S Thompson's "creative" work with language, just as Pat Jorndan's spelling problems and issues with contractions have nothing to do with his roughshod style o' writing. Both are writers and both make grammatical mistakes. The two have nothing to do with each other. If writers wrote perfectly, there would not be a need for highjly trained, highly paid copy editors (yes, the best are highly paid). And this is a media board. This isn't "writing". These are posts. Maybe for some, it's the only writing they do, but that's a different issue. If these posts are your bright and shining moment, then sure, they better be perfect. They are NOT mine. |
| snappiness | Posted – 6/5/2008 7:11:59 PM | show profile Well, you make a good point that writers do need editors and copyeditors, I can't disagree with you there. And of course we all make mistakes. But that doesn't mean we can't try our best, no matter what the venue. I do, anyway. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 6/5/2008 7:41:05 PM | show profile lifeisbetteredited The only person I speak for is myself, which is why my handle appears next to my post. If you believe I am speaking for the world, frankly that is your problem. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 6/6/2008 12:12:03 AM | show profile Vox-O I have to disagree. Well maybe it depends on the term "better". JFK's life, to me, was far more interesting unedited, as it (eventually) were. "More interesting" makes it "better" in my eyes. But you have a point. Snapi--no one is saying you shouldn't do your best while doing professional work. But 90 per cent of the time your best isn't good enough. That's why there are editors, fact checkers, copy editors, and lawyers (not to mention designers and agents). And just because you suck at copy editing --or even grammar (Read "Make Lemonade" by Virginia Wolf) doesn't mean you can't write, sorry, it doesn't. And no, Media bistro doesn't count. It just doesn't. Lambasting people on this board for picky errors, spelling and yes even grammar is a case of trying to make other people feel stupid and small(er), because you don't know this person and it just doesn't matter. If the errors are in a cover letter she's posted, or a pitch letter, fine. (Also there is a right way to do this and a wrong way) Correct the errors. Otherwise, it's really about something going on inside you when you feel the need to (publically and ostensibly)correct and then go on to belittle people for their mistakes. |
| seeattleme2 | Posted – 6/6/2008 12:14:11 AM | show profile And anyone who spell checks their Media Bistro posts--well, that's just someone with waaaay too much time on his/her hands. Someone who needs much more to do at work. |
| coasttocoast | Posted – 6/6/2008 2:07:34 AM | show profile seeattleme To defend Vox-o, he or she wasn't making a statement about life by writing "lifeisbetteredited." He was replying to a post I, lifeisbetteredited, made. That's all. And if I were to write my memoirs, I'd definitely employ some editing. No one should want to read about my grocery store runs and bi-monthly nail painting nights. :) |
| chucho | Posted – 6/6/2008 5:54:46 AM | show profile > Being lazy about it at all is like a carpenter leaving tools out in the rain and then saying, "Yeah, but if I were on the job I wouldn't do that." < I'm not sure the analogy fits. I think what you mean is that being lazy about writing is like a carpenter who does shoddy work because he's not being paid for the job, or something like that. Your analogy, taken the other way, would be writers who leave their laptops in then rain. Writers need more than to be good at grammar, they also need to be good with their figurative language. In fact, I find that correcting grammar and punctuation is way easier than explaining other aspects of good writing. But I guess I'm just being picky. ;) |
| jseconds77 | Posted – 6/6/2008 6:08:46 PM | show profile jeez, this is a tough thread! some replies seem hurtful. i think I'll dress up as frankenstein and see if Vanity Fair takes me. if they do, looks don't matter. honestly, why would you want to be hired by a company that places more importance on looks than substance? |
