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Topic: Do you think its too late?
| Author | Message |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/1/2008 12:34:14 AM | show profile Just curious... do you think we're in fatal overshoot as a planet, and that humankind's near-term extinction or near extinction (~within a hundred or two years) is inevitable? I saw something today talking about how the population of various species (elephants, lions, large fish, etc. etc.) is down by 90% and that within 50 years we are on a course to see rampant extinctions as humankind has never seen. Do you think it's too late? I have conversations like this with some pretty smart, savvy I work with, some who think it really is too late. For the record, I think we may have some very hard times ahead, but that we will change and adapt to avoid our own extinction (near-term anyway). |
| chucho | Posted – 6/2/2008 5:26:32 AM | show profile NO and no, but say good bye to the megafauna (except that which we keep alive in cages). I think with bioengineering we'll eventually be able to re-create these creatures (an way in the future I think we'll have some kind of "mortal immortality" -- meaning we will figure out how to transfer the id into either an organic or inorganic container -- the id will still be able to die, but we will figure out how to keep it "alive" indefinitely for those that can afford it or have access to the technology, which is necessary for long-term space travel, but that's a different subject). There are tough times ahead, but those tough times will be just for those dirt poor brown people with no education and lots of children in places like Bangladesh. We in the developed, educated, rich world (that sucks resources from crap-holes like Nigeria) will be just fine. |
| Queen Kong | Posted – 6/2/2008 6:28:00 AM | show profile My answer to your "late" question: No. The 'sky is falling' and 'the end is near' has been repeated in every language known to mankind since the beginning of civilization. The Roman Empire in one week alone of Coliseum spectacles was able to wipe-out an entire species of African elephant -- and yet elephants, as a whole, survived and two thousand years later still walk the earth. Nature prevails over anything mankind does to it. Besides, no one knows for sure at what point in the evolutionary process everything on earth is right now. Instead of being near the end, we may actually be in the beginning or the middle. |
| chucho | Posted – 6/2/2008 9:18:20 AM | show profile But, Queen: we will wipe out the megafauna (except that which we keep in zoos). History has shown that humans wipe out large species. The "earth friendly" Native Americans wiped out three or four species of buffalo not long after they crossed the Bering Straight. And just because two species of elephant still walk the earth (one is used as a utilitarian "workhorse") doesn't mean anything to the species of elephants that have been wiped out. (So to say humans wiped out one species but a similar species is still around isn't proof that humans can't wipe out entire species.) I just mention this because the patent reply from people of certain political persuasions -- that humans can't have any effect on the earth or other species because nature is such a huge force and it would be vain for those eco-commies to say that humans can have any effect on nature -- is hubristic and wrong. Human beings have profound effects on both climate and species. This has been observed throughout the study of natural history. If the Romans -- when the global population was a tiny fraction of today's global population -- could wipe out a species of elephant what do you think seven billion people can do to the climate and other species? In other words: I don't buy the arguments from people who say humans can't possibly have any effect (climate change, desertification, extinction of species) on nature and to think they can is vain or whatever. These arguments are often presented by people justifying their own lifestyle choices. In other words: to them it's personal, as it shoudl be because the average American is a pig when it comes to consumption of resources and emission of pollution. The pot just doesn't like to be called black, that's all. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/2/2008 9:31:26 AM | show profile Queen Kong, here's one big difference. In our not too distant future there was great fear of a global nuclear holocaust. In that case, our demise would be in the hands of a few insane men. In this case, we are all part of this problem. Every single one of us is contributing to and part of this problem. History has shown that societies can collapse. It's not too hard to extend that to the global, that the human species can collapse and become extinct. Why do we think we are immune to that? I have no doubt that, in time, mother earth would heal herself. It's just a question of whether we will be part of her any longer or if she has to "get rid" of us parasites in order to thrive again. But I don't think we'll completely disappear, as Chucho says we may greatly diminish in numbers, but I think we'll survive although live quite differently. |
| al medio | Posted – 6/2/2008 11:29:00 AM | show profile Our adaptability on worldwide population growth will determine our ability to survive as a species. Too many people too little resources. |
| mkelly | Posted – 6/2/2008 1:56:28 PM | show profile Too little time, too many UGoGirl posts. |
| al medio | Posted – 6/2/2008 4:10:34 PM | show profile I disagree her posts are the only ones on this site that actually make me do research. Besides we all want to know when the sky is falling. Or about to fall. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/2/2008 9:07:44 PM | show profile mkelly, I am happy to post about sunshine, lollipops and rainbows every now and then, and I actually thought my posting, frequency anyway, was down! Go figure. But of course you are free to ignore, or alternatively to fly in and dump a load, then fly back out. I heard a very interesting guy today from Europe. One point he was making that for the past 10,000 years of human civilization, the global temperature (not talking about individual locations...) has always varied between plus and minus one degree celcius (global average). The most optimistic 'green scenario' forecast is that global temperatures will increase by 2 degrees celcius, but the more likely scenarios are that global temperature will increase by 3.5 to 4 degrees celcius. Are we so arrogant that we think we can survive anything? Very miniscule changes in global temperature, over time, have massive impacts. |
| astrahook | Posted – 6/2/2008 9:12:55 PM | show profile is the glass 1/2 full, 1/2 empty, or just shattered in a million pieces. very revealing |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/2/2008 9:13:44 PM | show profile Thanks Al Medio. I am a little obsessed with energy/climate change issues. A few years ago I held these unsolicited brownbags at work on our coming energy crisis and people thought I was a little wacky. I am still a little wacky but perhaps not viewed as quite so these days. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/3/2008 12:28:59 AM | show profile And furthermore, if anyone has a problem with this thread, please recall the "what the hell do you look like" thread from a week or so ago... where I revealed myself: http://bp2.blogger.com/_zhFxJtsrad0/Rp9LvDi1DJI/AAAAAAAAAfQ/CSqA6dZXZA4/s1600-h/L1020147.jpg |
| al medio | Posted – 6/3/2008 9:25:04 AM | show profile But you didn't reveal yourself, you said it was a joke. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/3/2008 9:32:43 AM | show profile Yes, and I thought it was pretty hilarious... but I don't think people got it. |
| al medio | Posted – 6/3/2008 9:48:59 AM | show profile NOT A STALKER The poster board woman does fit your online personality though. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/4/2008 12:32:09 AM | show profile Love the "Not a Stalker", perfect! Yes, the poster woman perfectly embodies my alter ego here! |
| astrahook | Posted – 6/4/2008 5:45:53 AM | show profile that picture was indeed funny! |
| Rocky Mountain Writer | Posted – 6/4/2008 12:00:36 PM | show profile I think it's kind of interesting that the issue of global warming/climate change didn't hit our consciousness here in Colorado until about 4 or 5 years ago, right when oil started to go up and up. I'm not saying this is made up at all, but I do find the timing curious. I know this is a topic that is very widely discussed on the coasts, but here in the middle, it's taking its time. I don't know if it's too late. I do know that a lot of people doubt the idea of global warming because of the record snows the area had this year. They ask, if it's supposedly getting so hot then why are we getting so much snow? I've even seen some articles about the benefits of global warming, like an increased growing season in somes areas. I've noticed more mosquitos and bugs around, which usually die off in the winter. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/4/2008 11:35:34 PM | show profile Rocky Mountain, I think it's a happy coincidence (although I've heard there is no such thing as coincidences) that we are reaching the geological limits of oil production at precisely the time we need to drastically change how we do business. Perhaps mother nature in her infinite wisdom will see fit to spare us from destroying ourselves but limiting our access to fossil fuels. But the real problem isn't oil, it's coal. And as far as we know, still quite a lot left of that. On the other hand, if peak oil is at hand, it's going to be much harder and more expensive to get to that coal, which will in turn increase the price of coal, which could help a lot. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 6/5/2008 10:12:32 PM | show profile honestly politico, it only takes a small amount of intelligence to understand that we have the capability of transforming our one and only home into one that can't support us over the next century or so (or at least can't support most of us). Based on your blathering on the Obama/Clinton thread, it's pretty clear you are lacking... |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 6/6/2008 10:50:42 AM | show profile Coal is absolutely the problem. But limiting our dependence on foreign oil...let's cut them off before they have us by the short hairs forever. I'd like to stick it to them (and our president). I think it's rude to go and knock UGoGirl for making a point and telling her she needs Prozac. What should it matter to anyone else if she's interested in the production or advanced technology of alternative fuels? I don't agree with her about global warming, but I'm certainly glad people like her are passionate enough to spread the word. Start a debate, not a character assassination. That's just a cheap shot. I don't know about you, but I'm a bit pissed off about the oil companies getting a free ride to drill in dangerous areas on our tax dollars, while earning record profits. Maybe we could put those dollars to work creating new technologies instead, so maybe, just maybe, the Americans will be AHEAD of the curve when oil goes to $200 a barrel. |
