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Topic: Why do I need a traditional book publisher?
| Author | Message |
| Seafarer | Posted – 8/5/2008 2:06:01 PM | show profile | email poster (I'm not yet in the market to write/sell a book, but I can imagine doing so in the next few years, so am just wondering....) After reading the latest mediabistro.com/AvantGuild article on do-it-yourself book marketing and promotion (which essentially says that promotion is up to me and my bank account) I'm left with the obvious question: Why would I want to bother publishing a book through a traditional publishing house? My cut of the profits seems minuscule, I am expected to do all of the publicity, etc. etc. and I've already built my own platform through my blogging and other on- and off-line work. Why not pay my own editor to do a final review, pay a marketing pro to help me work up a campaign, and publish myself? ------ My Web site Family Travel blog NHRA drag racing on Fast Machines |
| stinking prague | Posted – 8/5/2008 2:16:47 PM | show profile Distribution |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/5/2008 2:22:40 PM | show profile Lots of people are. The drawbacks are: you probably won't get reviewed much and you won't get distribution into big chains. You will be mired in the glut of "self published" books so people and readers will be less likely to take your book seriously. Sure, if you have a platform and a list to sell your books directly, try self-publishing. Be warned, of course, people who read your blog for free might not want to pluck down $20 for abook. |
| Seafarer | Posted – 8/5/2008 3:02:48 PM | show profile | email poster The "distribution" question stinking prague says that "distribution" is one of the traditional publishing house's trump cards. OK. Can we define "distribution?" If I can get a self-published or POD book into Barnes & Noble/Borders and on Amazon & Powell's, which I understand is difficult but not impossible, then what distribution channels can the trad publisher offer that are so great? ------ My Web site Family Travel blog NHRA drag racing on Fast Machines |
| Seafarer | Posted – 8/5/2008 3:09:40 PM | show profile | email poster The book glut "You will be mired in the glut of 'self published' books so people and readers will be less likely to take your book seriously." Thanks for the feedback, dribbledrive1. I would submit that there are already a ton of books out there (hate to call it a "glut" - I like books) so an author must rise above the fray whether self-published or not. I'm also not sure about trad-published books being "taken seriously." If I like a book, I like a book; I don't really care who published it. My ego does not require Random House, or whatever, stamped on my book, especially as a first-time author, which is what I'd be. ------ My Web site Family Travel blog NHRA drag racing on Fast Machines |
| Seafarer | Posted – 8/5/2008 3:40:10 PM | show profile | email poster Another thread on self-publishing Late last fall, the self-publishing topic had a long thread with good info. Unlike that poster, who wants to publish poetry, I would be doing a nonfiction how-to, probably either in Web 2.0/social media, or travel, so my odds for self-publishing success appear to be better. ------ My Web site Family Travel blog NHRA drag racing on Fast Machines |
| rhino writer | Posted – 8/5/2008 3:59:52 PM | show profile It's not so much for you the author as for the reader. I know that I put down books that are self-published without reading them. And, although the chances are slim anyway, your book has no hope of becoming a best-seller if it's self-published. |
| stephanerd | Posted – 8/5/2008 4:04:04 PM | show profile | email poster In addition to the issues of distribution and legitimacy, both already discussed above, I have to say that I believe a publishing house -- no matter how small -- will still cover a lot of marketing that would be impossible to do on your own. As one who has worked on the marketing side of things at a moderately sized academic publishing house, where aggressive publicity is more minimal, I wonder why you wouldn't want to avail yourself of the marketing efforts a publisher would make for you, none of it on your dime. While you would be able to create a direct mail campaign on your own, design and printing costs can be insane, not to mention renting the relevant mailing lists for your target audience. Publishers also tend to highlight new books in their regular catalogs, and on their website, and to send out e-mail alerts to customers who have opted in for such things. Such marketing efforts, received from a well-established name publisher, can often be more well-received than those marketing pieces coming from a self-publisher. Publishers also send out galley copies of forthcoming books for you, to major and targeted media outlets, accompanied by press releases they have designed themselves. And they bring books with them to relevant professional conferences, where they receive additional exposure and sales (and believe me, the costs of securing exhibit space at a conference are appalling; what a business...). None of this is to say that you can't accomplish moderate success on your own, but the resources you would have at your disposal, at no extra cost to you, if you published with a regular publisher seem reason enough to try to do so. ------ www.freelancedom.com |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/5/2008 4:05:20 PM | show profile I'd say self-publishing tends to succeed most most you can identify and reach a niche audience. It also tends to work if the book is a come-on for selling other things, like consulting services. Especially in how to books, we are seeing a rash of self-published and ebooks which are giveaways to sell the authors expertise. --Unlike that poster, who wants to publish poetry, I would be doing a nonfiction how-to, probably either in Web 2.0/social media, or travel, so my odds for self-publishing success appear to be better.-- |
| westsidestory | Posted – 8/5/2008 5:36:55 PM | show profile Having worked a lot in the POD/ebooks area, I don't see any reason why a nonfiction book needs to be published by a main house, or why it needs distribution to bookstores beyond the author's region. As long as you don't expect to make a fortune, and have a knack for self-marketing, a writer can go it alone. POD (print on demand) is definitely more cost-efficient than printing up a bunch that will sit in your garage till you move them. I don't buy the arguments that a mainstream publisher will promote your book any better than you can yourself, or that getting a NYT review is essential to nonfiction. A good website with proper SEO and a halfway decent shopping cart program can sell as many books online as in stores. Getting a professional editor/copyeditor/proofreader is recommended, as is getting a PR pro to assist once the book is ready for press. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/5/2008 8:09:30 PM | show profile An awful lot depends on the purpose of your book. If it is primarily to promote your expertise, and you're using the book as a lost leader, there are benefits to having a legtimate publisher. Most journalists won't, for example, interview the writer of a self-published book as an expert. --As long as you don't expect to make a fortune, and have a knack for self-marketing, a writer can go it alone. POD (print on demand) is definitely more cost-efficient than printing up a bunch that will sit in your garage till you move them. I don't buy the arguments that a mainstream publisher will promote your book any better than you can yourself, or that getting a NYT review is essential to nonfiction. A good website with proper SEO and a halfway decent shopping cart program can sell as many books online as in stores.-- |
| Seafarer | Posted – 8/5/2008 8:19:55 PM | show profile | email poster Hmm, still not convinced westsidestory, you've nailed my initial impressions: "I don't buy the arguments that a mainstream publisher will promote your book any better than you can yourself, or that getting a NYT review is essential to nonfiction. A good website with proper SEO and a halfway decent shopping cart program can sell as many books online as in stores." I can't buy into a system that doesn't pay the author much of a cut and also has the lovely "remainders" problem, so stacks of unsold books from trad publishers go back to a warehouse or end up at Costco. It's 2008 and this system looks way too totter-y for me....too many layers, too many middlemen offering dubious added value, too many wedded to getting book reviews the standard way (which are read, where, in print pubs? The ones going belly up?) stephanerd, you took a great swing at supporting the trads, but....direct mail? C'mon. :) I can contact, at no cost, thousands of my blog readers via email, and because they know my work, I'll get a better open rate. I go to conferences like BlogHer and SXSW Interactive - if I'm a speaker there, I can sell my book at their conference bookstore without needing a trad publisher. I see mediabistro.com trumpet how Jane Friedman brought HarperCollins into the "digital age," then I turn around and see her gone, gone as the industry struggles. Why throw my lot in with that? I'd rather bet on my own tech savvy and drive than The Publishing Man/Woman. I do very much appreciate the feedback - eyes wide open is certainly best. ------ My Web site Family Travel blog NHRA drag racing on Fast Machines |
| Letterbox | Posted – 8/5/2008 9:37:35 PM | show profile Print on demand is definitely not cheaper than printing a batch. It?s less outlay of cash initially (and easier to execute) but a lot more expensive per book. And figure your margins will already be small. You also have to factor in a designer to typeset the book and do the cover. If you skimp on the designer/illustrator/photographer, there?s a good chance nobody will even pick your book up. I?ve seen tons of ugly self-published covers. That's all a good reason to go through a house if you can. Your initial outlay for printing, design, shipping, marketing, etc. will tie up a lot of money over a long period. You might end up making more money in the long run, but it can take years to do. |
| vickiwagner1 | Posted – 8/6/2008 3:00:30 AM | show profile | email poster You can do it- I did! Hi, I spent the last two years researching publishing, POD and eBooks. I bought 2 eBooks on how to write an eBook. I made a sales page and a company to take the money/credit cards. I just finished my eBook, entitled, "Get a Date Today, How to Market Yourself for Love." I put it up for sale 2 weeks ago. I then put out a Google alert for "Online Dating." I started sending brief inquiries to the bloggers and newspapers last week. Today I got my first interview in a paper in Dallas, TX. Tomorrow I have another interview and Friday, yet another. yes, it may be slow at first, but my eBook comes with a workbook and it is $29.95. I get to keep $26.49 of that- so it is worth the work. I just had the eBook reviewed. THe review comes out on one of the largest online dating forums on the net next week. I have a lot to do, but it is my project and I'm totally cool with being the one to talk it up. I get to "go green" by not wasting paper and cutting down trees and I don't have to spend one dime to have hundreds of copies printed. I am going to be a featured author at a local book fair in the fall. I am putting my eBook on cd's and selling them. If you have a passion to write- just do it! If you have something to say- just say it! If I wanted I could upload to Amazon Kindle- I'd have to cut my price, so for now, I am going at it like this. You can all do the same. The way people use the Internet is changing and this is a world where people want things RIGHT NOW. With an eBook they can have the information right now! Good luck to you! Vicki |
| stephanerd | Posted – 8/6/2008 9:40:37 AM | show profile | email poster Ah, well. I tried. As someone who left the book publishing industry to freelance full-time, mostly online, I'm a huge proponent of the power of e-marketing. I suppose there's just a traditionalist streak in me. And the book publishing process seems so much less daunting when you have a publisher backing you up, both monetarily and with manpower. I guess what bothers me most about self-publishing is what others above have already said: When I see that a book is self-published, I automatically take it less seriously, because it seems a sign that it wasn't good enough to snag a publishing house's support. One caveat: I agree with dribbledrive. If your book is intended as a means of showcasing your personal business and bringing in clients, self-publishing may be the best (easiest) way to go. An e-book even...? ------ www.freelancedom.com |
| Seafarer | Posted – 8/6/2008 10:26:47 AM | show profile | email poster It's all good Village Gal, that's a fair shot, I did have some very strong initial impressions after some research, and some opinions were busily coalescing in my head, so I thought I'd try to give 'em a swat before they hardened. :) The attitude of "you only self-publish when you can't make it in the big time" seems to mostly be held by, well, those who are comfortable with the trad publishing route status quo. I would submit that some of those same folks might dismiss all bloggers as failed journalists/writers who can't make it any other way. I leave that point of view to those who insist on holding it as the world they knew crashes around them. My questioning of those who are not in the book biz in any way, but only buy and read books (which is the whole cotton-pickin' POINT, right?) indicates that they don't care who publishes as long as the content's good, although they ARE put off by crappy graphics and layout, so self-pubs must address that issue. If I'm going to hold my own book in my hands, I want to be proud of the final product, and I want my labors writing it, and also apparently doing almost all of the marketing, to be properly rewarded. There appear to be multiple paths to achieve that, all quite valid depending on your topic and market. ------ My Web site Family Travel blog NHRA drag racing on Fast Machines |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/6/2008 12:03:39 PM | show profile Well, I think the point is, if I know a book is self-published I am much less likely to take a glance at it and examine its content, especially if it is a book that is aimed at a larger audience. Self-publishing just creates one more obstacle to getting people to pay attention to you. If I buy a self-published book, it tends to (A) be tightly, tightly, tightly focused and (B) the authors credentials related to the subject of the book are impressive. I know, for example, an expert who wrote an 1,000-page tome on Internet security for corporate technology guys who self published it. It made sense in that case. He was really well known for the topic. His technical subject matter was aimed at a very small audience. He only expected to sell a few hundred copies but he's technical expertise was so respected and the book was so focused and comprehensive, he charged $500 for it. On the other hand, if you are writing a "How to Be a Better Blogger" book, and are competing with several similar books on the marketplace, you might have a tough time. I'd say if you do self-publish consider both a hard copy and ebook (at lower price). I bought a medical book online and was happy to see the option of immediately buying and downloading an ebook at one-third of the hardcover price. I would rather have non-fiction and reference material in ebook form, since I can search it. --My questioning of those who are not in the book biz in any way, but only buy and read books (which is the whole cotton-pickin' POINT, right?) indicates that they don't care who publishes as long as the content's good, although they ARE put off by crappy graphics and layout, so self-pubs must address that issue.-- |
| foodlit | Posted – 8/6/2008 5:25:55 PM | show profile Seafarer, Is your book strictly of interest to your immediate region? If so, then self-pubbing could possibly make sense. However, if it could reach a broader audience, then I'd try and interest a big publisher first for several reasons. First of all, you'll get an advance before you write the book, which is nice. Secondly, DISTRIBUTION. Yes, distribution is key. You cannot get your book into Borders or BandN if you self-pub. They will not take it. Primarily because self-pubbed books are not returnable. Getting your book on Amazon is a joke...you will hardly sell any copies there, it's such a minute percentage of overall copies sold, much lower than you would imagine. The big bookstores are key, and if you somehow can get into the big box stores like Wall-mart Target, BJ's or Costco, you're set. Yes, your percentage is smaller than if you self-pub, but you need to look at the big picture, 100% of nothing is nothing. Publishing is all about volume. And you're not expected to handle all of your own publicity. Publishers do that...for non-fiction it's important to have a credible platform, but you don't have to invest money in publicity yourself unless you choose to. Good luck, Pam |
| aoscruggs | Posted – 8/6/2008 6:20:31 PM | show profile | email poster Why do I need a traditional book publisher? I'm asking the same question and I have three books under my belt. The publicity and marketing I got from my publishers was minimal. I mailed letters, sent out press releases, arranged interviews, designed publicity material. And my publishers were Scholastic, St. Martins and Beyond Words (now a division of Atria) I've checked around and found that my experience is not unique. In order to sell the book to a publisher, your proposal has to include a marketing plan. Why not self-publish, develop an audience, and keep the money, instead of settling for a royalty tardy sales reports? |
| aoscruggs | Posted – 8/6/2008 6:21:02 PM | show profile | email poster Why do I need a traditional book publisher? I'm asking the same question and I have three books under my belt. The publicity and marketing I got from my publishers was minimal. I mailed letters, sent out press releases, arranged interviews, designed publicity material. And my publishers were Scholastic, St. Martins and Beyond Words (now a division of Atria) I've checked around and found that my experience is not unique. In order to sell the book to a publisher, your proposal has to include a marketing plan. Why not self-publish, develop an audience, and keep the money, instead of settling for a tiny royalty and tardy sales reports? |
| attebery | Posted – 8/6/2008 9:01:11 PM | show profile I'm taking a shot at it I was asking myself the exact same thing last year. Now I've decided to take a shot at it. Cryptic Bindings, a creepy little press in the Pacific Northwest is looking for readers for a free online serial novel. With gas prices and the cost of living ever rising, we thought "free" sounded like a good way to get people to start checking out our fiction. Hope you have a moment to check out the untiled serial novel (we're running a title contest) on our website. Hope you have a chance to check it out: www.crypticbindings.com Our first standalone book, "On/Off: A Jekyll and Hyde Story," will debut November 4th |
| worldofnatasha | Posted – 8/6/2008 9:28:16 PM | show profile attebery I *adore* the fact that you describe yourselves as a "creepy little press"... so awesome -- you've just made at least one new fan! |
| snappiness | Posted – 8/7/2008 7:07:03 AM | show profile It's all about the advance I've written four books. Traditional publishers pay me to write those. Self publishing does not. If I can land a traditional publishers who gives me an advance, why would I say no to that in favor of funding the thing myself and not earning any money until it starts selling? Plus, I don't want to work that hard on marketing. But then again, I'm not writing "how to" books anymore. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/7/2008 7:36:44 PM | show profile Two suggestions: 1. I'd put a short synopsis of the book up to the point of your new chapter. If you are updating once a week, people might not remember all the details of what came before it. 2. If you are getting any significant readership, I'd add a forum for people to discuss the book. Of course, if you're not getting much readership, and the forum would mostly be empty, I wouldn't do this. Good luck. --Cryptic Bindings, a creepy little press in the Pacific Northwest is looking for readers for a free online serial novel. With gas prices and the cost of living ever rising, we thought "free" sounded like a good way to get people to start checking out our fiction. Hope you have a moment to check out the untiled serial novel (we're running a title contest) on our website.-- |
