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Topic: Are NY Editors Snobby Toward Non-Residents?
| Author | Message |
| writerchic | Posted – 8/19/2008 11:30:04 PM | show profile While I've been writing since I was a wee thing, I've only been doing this national freelance writing gig in earnest for about a year. My first hit out of the gate with with Better Homes & Gardens. As most of you know, they're home base is in Iowa. I've had about five assignments with them since, and the editor is always open to my ideas and best of all, he consistently takes my calls. I just got another gig with a mag based in Chicago, and they're interested in hearing my pitches ongoing. On the other hand, I have completely struck out with NY magazines, save one editor at a major mag who will remain nameless. All other pitches I've made to the major mags in NY have fallen upon deaf ears. So my question is this: Does my Southern California location work against me in some way with this elusive clique of women? Am I not cosmopolitan enough? Funny, this reminds me how I felt in high school when none of the cool girls wanted to be friends with me. Sincere feedback is welcome. |
| mkelly | Posted – 8/20/2008 9:54:54 AM | show profile NY editors are just snobby, period. Your location is incidental. |
| epenthesis | Posted – 8/20/2008 10:47:40 AM | show profile Your writing style and/or point of view might also just not be what the major mags are looking for. The girls in high school may have been capricious, but editors are just choosy. They have the right, the opportunity, and the obligation to be. |
| writerchic | Posted – 8/20/2008 1:13:26 PM | show profile | email poster Not Rock Science Epenthesis, many of the women's magazine editors I pitch supervise service-related sections of the book--not exactly New Yorker-esque literariness. As you probably also know, ALL magazines have one, unified voice, regardless of who writes the copy. So essentially, it boils down to basic writing skills, good ideas and most importantly, a ticket to the in-crowd. I believe I score two out of three. The motivation of this post was out of genuine curiosity, not sour grapes. Some CONSTRUCTIVE advice is most appreciated. |
| writerandeditor | Posted – 8/20/2008 1:34:33 PM | show profile Epenthes wasn't being snotty -- you are being defensive. |
| writerchic | Posted – 8/20/2008 1:56:49 PM | show profile | email poster If my tone is defensive, it's honestly out of frustration and befuddlement. If I can get multiple assignments from a major, high-circulation women's magazine, as well as wire services and other smaller books (all of which are not based in NY), why am I being shut out? What am I missing? |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/20/2008 3:06:34 PM | show profile I've found BH&G as well as the Health magazine people pretty receptive (both are based outside NY). At the same time, I've found lots of NY magazines receptive to pitches and I've never lived in NY (I haven't written for most of the big women's magazines for a while now, but a decade or so ago I wrote for most of them -- LHJ, Women's Day, etc., etc.). Especially nowadays, when most pitches are via email, I doubt the writer's location is much of a factor. I don't think, for example, if you put a 212 number on your email pitch the response would be any better. |
| SPF 30 | Posted – 8/20/2008 11:08:43 PM | show profile I've been a NYC editor at the type of magazines you're pitching. Location isn't generally a factor, and being outside the city is a plus, if your writing and voice are strong. In my opinion, the problem is that, these days, magazine staffs are lean and the editors are too overwhelmed with work to be able to manage things properly; they juggle shifting priorities and face overflowing in-boxes, and sometimes that translates into silence on their end, when it comes to responding to pitches from somebody they don't already know. It's not ideal; it's just the unfortunate reality. My advice is to keep trying; don't lose hope. (And good luck to you!) |
| alex8649 | Posted – 8/21/2008 5:06:52 PM | show profile "Epenthes wasn't being snotty -- you are being defensive." She was definitely being snotty, while you're being both snotty and defensive yourself. Probably out of identifying with so many brainless NYC editors suffering from a blinding sense of self-entitlement to compensate for their total lack of any real worth or substance. |
| LAmode | Posted – 8/21/2008 5:13:47 PM | show profile This is a good question and a good thread--let's not get caught up in other issues. SPF 30 gives a great answer. I was in a similar position and yes--it comes down to an overwhelming inbox and wanting to be able to trust the writer. Easier to trust the ones we know than the ones we don't! But there were times when I had time to build a stable of potential new writers. Keep in touch with your desired editors and you will at least make it into that group. |
| writerchic | Posted – 8/22/2008 12:19:13 PM | show profile I'm glad this is sparking debate. It's difficult trying to learn the ropes from 3,000 miles away. I feel like I could have a better "in" if I were closer, but I'll keep trying. Thanks everyone for your comments. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 8/22/2008 12:34:29 PM | show profile SPF 30, it's a fairly standard defense that editors rely on "who they know" and even within those circles it's no sure thing; one such editor gave me the "you're new to the magazine drill" although she's known me for some time. So, for the OP and others, how *do* busy and overworked NYC editors get to know the writers they decide are trustworthy? Multiple successful pitches? A coffee or lunch to meet face and face? Referrals from other writers or editors? |
| Mirage | Posted – 8/22/2008 12:44:53 PM | show profile Multiple successful pitches followed by *on-time delivery* makes me return to writers time and again for new assignments. Nonsense, drama, and diva-ism makes me avoid writers at all costs. |
| epenthesis | Posted – 8/22/2008 3:44:20 PM | show profile She was definitely being snotty He, thank you. As for the snottiness, think whatever you like. At the end of the day it doesn't change writerchic's situation one bit--she isn't being well received by a (loosely defined) group of editors, and her response is to wonder whether this is because the editors are simply bad people. It would be gratifying to the ego to believe so (indeed, it's how I look back on a disastrous job in my distant past), but it doesn't have a positive outcome, unless you consider it positive to call sour grapes and give up. It is possible that writerchic could appraise these magazines more carefully and adapt her subject matter and/or writing style to accommodate them. It is also possible that she's trying to enter a more competitive marketplace and she's accordingly going to have a significantly lower success rate. These possibilities are far likelier than any junior high school pop-psych "cool girls" theories, and there will be benefits if either is proven correct--either she'll improve, or she'll learn to better manage her expectations. |
| SPF 30 | Posted – 8/23/2008 1:03:55 PM | show profile Caitlin, maybe some editors do rely *only* on who they know and only work with NY-based writers; I can't speak for them. I can only tell you what I've experienced. The editors I've worked with are always searching for new voices to add to their go-to lists. And in the past year, I've found three shooting stars -- brilliant writers -- and not a single one lives in New York. Chicago, Boulder, and Seattle, actually. |
| Marie | Posted – 8/24/2008 12:20:49 AM | show profile What Caitlin says is true, but "writers they know" don't necessarily live in New York. "Know" here means know their work and reliability. They may never have laid eyes on these writers, even though they "know" them. I once worked for a major, major national women's magazine that everyone wanted to write for (I've since moved to the Web), and having writers outside of New York was a major plus. The magazine went out of its way to cultivate good writers who were not in New York. |
| Telling It Like It Is | Posted – 8/24/2008 3:29:50 AM | show profile | email poster Epenthesis, are you a fembot or robot of some sort? Regardless of gender Epenthesis, you have a very blunt way of expressing yourself. On 8/20 YOU WERE BEING SNODDY AND NOT HELPFUL AT ALL. Your later response was more constructive. As you wrote, at the end of the day it will not matter, but it does as we are HUMAN BEINGS. DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER, ME THINKS THERE IS A CYBORG IN THE HOUSE. That would be humor...from a human, that does not write like an unfeeling, blunt robot. Or maybe you are roll playing and just looking for a heart like that poor old tin man. LIGHTEN UP EPENTHESIS AND GIVE PEOPLE A BREAK WHEN REPLYING TO THEIR QUESTIONS/CONCERNS/STATEMENTS because "Life is just toooooo short." Peace out! |
| Telling It Like It Is | Posted – 8/24/2008 3:38:32 AM | show profile Nonsense, drama, and diva-ism makes me avoid writers..... costs. You couldn't possibly be in publishing, advertising, public relations, media of any sorts by making that statement unless your office is in a remote part of the country, say high on a mountain in Canada, because as someone who has worked in the those areas, I have yet NOT to come across, backstabbing, screaming, bad tempered, drama kings and queens with a Exorcist head spinning mentality from time to time. IT IS JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST, ERRR sometimes also called CREATIVITY to excuse bad behavior from people who left kindergarden looooong ago because as we get grow up, the scenery may change, but we are all still locked on the playground of life. |
| writerchic | Posted – 8/24/2008 4:46:24 AM | show profile Thanks, Tellingitlikeitis Thanks for sticking up for me. When I put myself out there I was expecting bluntness, to be sure. However, I wasn't expecting my writing talent and reliability to be questioned, especially since no one here has seen the work I've done. Like I said, I've written for some MAJOR publications, but none of them in NY (I should also mention they gave me multiple assignments). So one must draw a conclusion--were the editors who employed me substandard, inferior in some way to NY editors who won't give me the time of day? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 8/24/2008 10:30:54 AM | show profile Writerchic, it would be impossible for anyone on this board to evaluate why your business has struggled in certain areas. We have no idea who you are, what your work is like, or how you run your business. That's not an insult -- were you really assuming that everyone here would automatically say, "CLEARLY if someone of your prodigious talents and exceptional business acumen is having trouble, it MUST be because everyone in the city of NY is big snobby meanie!" It may be true that your talents are prodigious and your business acumen razor-sharp, but how would anyone here be able to say that with certainty? In general, my feeling is, if you're getting the same negative results in certain aspects of your career (whether that means getting no calls back about your resume or not landing the freelance gigs you want), you have to at least entertain the idea that there may be something in your approach that you need to rethink. |
| epenthesis | Posted – 8/24/2008 4:55:38 PM | show profile Good lord, you'd think I was telling writerchic that she was a talentless hack wasting her time in the big leagues. She might well be very talented--we can't tell--but it's not particularly helpful (or professional) to speculate unflatteringly about the audience she's trying to reach. The editors who aren't buying writerchic's stories have limited budgets and lots of existing relationships with freelancers. Getting a foot in the door is going to be extremely tough. That's just a fact. If she is serious about working in this market, she will have to recognize that it will require a lot of perseverance and a willingness to adapt to circumstances. I'm not trying to be cruel. But I have no interest in indulging this fantasy--editors want what's best for their magazines, period. |
| Marie | Posted – 8/24/2008 11:03:41 PM | show profile But it's OK for the original poster to make an uninformed assumption? Please. And anyone who's in this industry knows that budgets are tight, and it's a tough time, and editors prefer to dole out the limited assignments to writers they've already worked with and trust, regardless of where they're located. This doesn't mean anything is wrong with the op's talents. |
| Marie | Posted – 8/25/2008 10:15:20 AM | show profile It might be nice if you read what people are actually posting. This post began with an assumption. People have offered counter explanations. And maybe the poster isn't quite hitting the magazine's target. Again, that's no reflection of a lack of talent or any writerly shortcomings. It's tough to know what a magazine really wants, even for seasoned writers, even for writers who have hit the mark with a magazine once. End of story. The op should keep studying the magazine and continue to pitch. Eventually she/he will hit it. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 8/25/2008 10:42:15 AM | show profile Northcoast, how on earth from the contents of this thread have you made any determination about the talents, ability and pitching tactics of the OP, along with the reasons why she hasn't broken into the mags she wants to? We know one thing only, what she told us: That she hasn't had success breaking into major NYC-based publications. Obviously, whatever she's doing isn't working the way she wants it to, so she either needs to rethink her technique or re-set her expectations. How exactly is that snobby or obnoxious advice? All she can do is control her own side of her business; no one here can force these editors to hire her. And by the way, many magazine budgets even over the last year have shrunk considerably. That's a reality that both freelancers and staffers have to deal with. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 8/25/2008 12:16:15 PM | show profile Northcoast, this topic has clearly fired you way, way up. I'm not making "assumptions" -- I'm repeating what the poster SAID. She said she hasn't been able to break into any major NY magazines. In other words, she's gotten a very consistent response from all the outlets she's approached. Since her goals as she stated IS to break into those magazine, she has to figure out a way to do that -- obviously, whatever she's doing, or whatever her expectations have been, aren't working -- or she wouldn't have posted in the first place! Somehow her getting rid of all the "mean" NYC editors and replacing them with "nice" editors who want to hire her isn't a realistic option. What she CAN control is only HER OWN side of her business. So if landing those NYC gigs is essential to the success of her business, she has to figure out a way to do that. What's the agenda in saying that? And why does mentioning that budget cuts are affecting all levels of the industry -- not exactly a controversial statement -- offend you? |
