| Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Media Issues > Topic: TODAY'S EMPLOYERS ARE CHEAP BEYOND BELIEF |
Topic: TODAY'S EMPLOYERS ARE CHEAP BEYOND BELIEF
| Author | Message |
| Telling It Like It Is | Posted – 8/24/2008 3:14:53 AM | show profile | email poster I send my resume out & get an interview w/ the question: "How much do you need or want to make?" Now I know the economy is bad, challenging..pitiful @ the moment. The Prez can't even say the R word (Recession) & recently a newshow used the D word (Depression), but in order to GET A JOB, in this desolate economy & town I live in, I do not want to be taken out of the running by stating what I use to make, which is also what places are demanding you put down or else, "You will not be considered for this position." My answer to the tricky question is, "May I ask how much the budget is for this position?" One interview I just went on for a non-profit said, "$11.00 per hour." This was for a Development position which as the interview proceeded had TONS of ad ons: Event Coordination, Volunteer Coordination, Media Coordination, Data Base Management, etc., as my resume shows that I have that experience. They said they were hoping for someone who just graduated from college, still lives at home or is married-hence the low pay. What audaciousness.....they had to have read my resume, writing samples, job experience, internship, degrees...unless I got done w/ all of that at 12 years of age, how could I be a recent college grad? Then I had to be honest as I am sure the Director was not making cheap denero & say that it was not enough..."then what would you consider?" they asked. I felt like I was in a creepy Vampire movie & they were seeing how much blood they could take. Another place was offering NO PAY intern positions in a direction that I want to change to: Copywriting. I have published writing samples, ad agency & publishing co. exp., but then the guy says he wants me to work the front reception desk, file, answer phones & do Production work since that was my background as well. The unpaid position was specifically: Copywriting. "What do you hope to achieve," he asked. I said I wanted to learn, contribute and put together a clip book. This entire time it was pin dead drop quite in the office. Since I haven't been to a mortuary that quiet, I was wondering where the action/biz/bodies/employees/phone ringing, ya know, activity that looked like they were actually a running biz were. It sucked--they didn't have enough biz to even need a Traffic person at this time. Sure the economy is challenging, but employers know that the market is cyclical. They shouldn't become cheap, even non health benefit paying pariahs. $11. dollars an hour...HOOTERS, HERE I COME, 'cause I know the tip money alone would beat that. Oh, and the no pay intern job guy said, "I should make my decision by next Thursday & give you a call, if not, call me." I am going to call him for a 40 hour a week, non-paying job with extra work attached and not the work described? No, no and no. In response to the clip book he said, "Have you thought of taking ads that you see in mags and rewriting them for your clip book?" I thanked him for the tip, but wouldn't that be like me trying to repaint a Monet?....not very original. Since it was a posting for a COPYWRITER INTERN position, couldn't I write for them & use those clips instead of rewriting some top ad companies ads? That was what their non-paying job posting cited or else I would not have applied. WHERE HAVE ALL THE DECENT EMPLOYERS GONE? |
| writerchic | Posted – 8/24/2008 4:56:52 AM | show profile Good question. I personally think globalism is partly to blame for the low pay and high expectations employers have. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 8/24/2008 8:34:36 AM | show profile Yes, that and ... ... too many bored rich housewives and overprivileged children who are still being taken care of by Mummy and Daddy. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 8/24/2008 12:21:02 PM | show profile Depends on what area you're in I think the economy is bad in most areas of the country hence the ridiculous offerings for "salaries". However, I do think that some areas are holding their own like the Denver/Boulder area and a couple of others out west. I would like to ask the question though of WHY are you interviewing for positions you have no interest in? Why are you interviewing for no-pay internships? You must know they're offering no pay before you go so WHY are you wasting your/their time???? Why don't you ask for more infor BEFORE you take the time to schlep somewhere to interview and then bitch and moan when it's not what you're looking for? I'm flummoxed by your rant! |
| beenthere | Posted – 8/24/2008 1:13:45 PM | show profile I think part of it is that employers are not responding to how much experience potential candidates have. If a candidate has 15 years experience, and an employer knows the salary range is 30k to 35k, do they really think someone in their late 30s can afford to live on that? Why would they even bring in the person for an interview? It's insulting. Either translate experience/skills/education into the salary formula, or keep hiring 22-year-olds. This is why employers should specify a salary range before they even bring candidates into an interview. It can tell a lot about what the company values--cheap labor versus an intention to hire someone with great skills. |
| candylilacs | Posted – 8/25/2008 12:18:31 AM | show profile There have always been underpaying employers. Always. Just keep plugging away. I would take a lower-paying job (you indicated copywriting) in a career I'm transitioning into, but not one where I clearly have substantial experience. And, for what it's worth, no one has manners anymore because they don't deal face-to-face with people much. Be vigilant, be sparkling and determined. Good luck! ------ Dealing with being laid off, so you don't have to! www.laidoffjournal.com |
| WordyBird | Posted – 8/25/2008 12:57:58 PM | show profile What been there and candylilacs said. Also, journalism has never been a high-paying field. Way back when I was in school, the profs told us outright, "if you want to get rich, the law school is right next door and the med school is across the quad and over three blocks." |
| chucho | Posted – 8/25/2008 2:40:24 PM | show profile >> I personally think globalism is partly to blame for the low pay and high expectations employers have. << Hmmmm, you have a very excellent point in one regard, but it doesn't really apply to the media industry in most cases. A native command of English, much less an ability to present in proper style and grammar are a few of the reasons why I think wages in the media industry is shielded from the suppressing effect of globalization. In fact, it's quite easy to find better-paying jobs overseas in media precisely because you can't just hire a low-wage person in some Third World country to do the work because it requires a decent command of written and spoken English. On the other hand: you make an excellent point otherwise. Globalization is good. I'm for it. I like it. But it's not all good. And there is overwhelming evidence that the globalization of labor has harmed salaries in the USA because the people have allowed the pro-business types completely take over every aspect of economic policy in this country. I see it everywhere. The second you start talking about labor rights, even leftists I know roll their eyes and call you a crusty old school lib. What really annoys me -- and I think this is the root of the problem -- the federal minimum wage. It sucks. And even if you don't earn FMW, because it's so low it sort of has an overall chilling effect on wages all the way up. It's amazing to me that $13,624 is minimum wage (and this just went up in 2007 from $10,712!). That's below the federal poverty line for anyone who has a dependent (and until mid-2007, it was basically the poverty line for a single-person household, which is preposterous). If it were higher, then media companies would have to compete against jobs in the lesser-skilled industries. In other words, if you raise the bottom, it raises everyone's wages to some degree. If the bottom is ridiculously low, higher-skilled industries don't have to pay as much because workers in that industry would not even consider a job at Barnes & Noble. But if Barnes & Noble (or wherever)could pay a living wage, then more people would consider a longer time in retail and services (instead of just a stigmatized temporary necessity -- since American seem to be increasingly judgmental of these types of jobs) reducing the labor pool for the media jobs. In other words: I think wages is the problem, not globalization. But I guess that's just a view of an old-school leftist. (Rolls eyes.) |
| beachbum | Posted – 8/26/2008 12:08:26 PM | show profile While I agree that some companies exploit their employees for peanuts, not all of them do and I have to say that you seem to have a very negative attitude towards job hunting. Employers pick up on that 'tude and don't like it. Unfortunately, the economy is not the best and many qualified people are out of a job right now, so it's an employer's market, the same way that it's a buyer's market in the housing industry. That said, there are still some well-paying jobs out there for the right person. My advice to you is to stop wasting your time and employers time by applying to jobs that are below your required salary levels. Instead of sending 100 resumes, send out 10 to really great jobs that you would be excited to have. Believe me, it's not going to benefit anyone if you take on a job that pays poorly or is a bad fit. You will be in a bad mood from the get-go. Focus your efforts on getting the job you really want and go from there. And remember, attitude is very important. Even in this market I've seen people that got laid off get a high-paying job again in no time. They talk the talk and project a very positive vibe. Good luck! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/26/2008 2:09:56 PM | show profile I think you're wrong, Churcho. The media a "glamor job" so it's relatively easy for employers to find qualified people who will work for much less than they would at other jobs. Raising the minimum wage wouldn't have any effect; media companies wouldn't lose out on new reporters and editorial assistants choosing to work at Starbucks for a buck an hour more. -- If it were higher, then media companies would have to compete against jobs in the lesser-skilled industries. In other words, if you raise the bottom, it raises everyone's wages to some degree. If the bottom is ridiculously low, higher-skilled industries don't have to pay as much because workers in that industry would not even consider a job at Barnes & Noble.-- |
| beenthere | Posted – 8/26/2008 2:49:25 PM | show profile < I think that is extremely difficult to do these days. Job titles are no longer reflective of experience or education levels. My friend works for a company where everyone is a senior editor. It doesn't matter if someone has two or 20 years experience. Everyone has the same title because it makes clients feel "special" that they have a "senior." |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/26/2008 3:40:37 PM | show profile I don't know if that's the best example. "Senior editor" is more about responsibilities than tenure. I've held "senior editor" posts when I was younger and had fewer years of experience than some people in positions below me. --My friend works for a company where everyone is a senior editor. It doesn't matter if someone has two or 20 years experience. Everyone has the same title because it makes clients feel "special" that they have a "senior."-- |
| consider | Posted – 8/26/2008 10:04:43 PM | show profile I work for just over 12 an hour with no health benefits, and I'm not even paid to do what I'm good at -- so, you're not alone. Media jobs are so cheap because everyone wants them, including people who have no business, well, IN this business! Employers do get what they pay for. Where I live, being stingy results in a cadre of publications featuring the shoddiest writing you ever did see. I don't mean to be an ass, by the way, but I have not ever heard of the word "audaciousness" - might you mean "audacity?" I know we say this on here a lot, but meticulously copy-editing your application materials will serve you in very good stead. |
| Telling It Like It Is | Posted – 8/27/2008 1:57:46 AM | show profile | email poster Great, intelligent info, opinions from everyone! Thank you to everyone for their response to my rant, especially Beenthere! BruisePristine: Dictionary: Audaciousness, noun--google it as you will be enlightened as it 'tis a real word: The quality of being audacious; impudence; audacity. BeachBum: I honestly expected a response like yours regarding my attitude as I can see that one might think that I have a negative attitude. I actually expected more similar to your response. However, I can assure you that I am thrilled when I get a response from a human being when I reply for an interview. Also, I am delighted, giddy, beside myself with joy to go on an interview as it means I have a chance of getting a job. I wouldn't be human if I wasn't disappointed about the low pay offers & how things are going. Things are so odd that I have had friend after friend tell me to write a book on this oddity of a nightmare adventure. I have met many loons. People who have no concept of interviewing. And the moola thing, don't get me started again......... Confident Designer-Don't be dumbfounded by the fact that I am applying for intern positions as I am trying to transition from one area to another. Therefore that would be the ONLY way I would accept low to nothing pay. Sure, I would have to work at Hooter's or a Gas Station at night, freelance like crazy & pray to everyone that an actual permanent position will come along, but if I can get more experience, considering the town I live in, I will JUMP OUT OF THE BOX & do what I can. I never want to waste anyone's time or mine. It just baffles me as to how greedy & misrepresentational one intern position was as they wanted to use me for everything, for No PAY. Yes, I applied for the no pay intern position, but to build a SPEC BOOK, for a specific area, not to be taken advantage of. PAY--Most positions, 95% by my view, where I live do not list salary. That would be so divine if they did. Instead they require applicants to list their past salary history or they will not be considered. I am not clairvoyant so I have no way of knowing HOW MUCH THEY WILL PAY when I am applying & it 'tis a definite No No to ask straight-up, "So how much does this gig pay?" Therefore the employers are playing the cat & mouse game. The balls, all of them from every game, are in their court. Wasting time--Employer's are wasting applicant's time by not listing salary and/or reviewing the applicant's resume, calling them in, like me, then trying to pay them nothing. No Pay/Intern positions--It would be grand if they paid something & I am only applying to ones that have a limited duration as I am proactive & UNEMPLOYED & would like to use my time EFFECTIVELY since I am NOT making any Money NOW by interning & learning something, then just applying for jobs & not doing anything except an occassional rant on MediaBistro. No pay is horrible, but if I can get something out of it while I am not making any money anyways, I think that is the proactive way to go. Again---THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU. YOU ALL GAVE GREAT INFO. I DID NOT THINK I WOULD GET SO MUCH FEEDBACK/INPUT, WHICH I APPRECIATE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| coasttocoast | Posted – 8/27/2008 3:39:13 AM | show profile Google is not a dictionary - not even close. Just because FreeOnlineBSDictionary.com says it's a word, doesn't mean it's accepted in educated society. It's "audacity." Also, 'tis = it is. The apostrophe signifies the missing "i." No need for the extra "it." Sorry if it sounds like I'm harping. We all make mistakes. We learn and move on and use better vocabulary. No big deal. Feel free to point out my own errors - I'm always looking to improve. Also, I agree that many employers seem to be suffering from severe Scrooge-osis. And I don't believe it's just the economy throwing things into unusually sharp relief. |
| candylilacs | Posted – 8/27/2008 3:46:05 PM | show profile I would probably use the word "audacity" rather than audaciousness. It's not as bad as using "acquirement" instead of "acquisition" but you get the gist. c. ------ Dealing with being laid off, so you don't have to! www.laidoffjournal.com |
| shoopsesq | Posted – 8/27/2008 6:09:46 PM | show profile ridiculous I interviewed for a job at the Tennesseean where they offered me a position, then demanded to know how much I was making at my current job as a reporter. I refused to tell them and they pressed and pressed for the information, stunned that I wasn't revealing it. I said, "How is that relevant? This is how much I need. How much are you offering?" For the state's premier newspaper, it wasn't enough and I wasn't willing to put myself at a disadvantage in bargaining by offering up my current salary. I hope more of us do this so employers will realize they can't get away with that question. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 8/27/2008 7:04:33 PM | show profile Well, Shoop, I'm in the middle of something like that, myself. Someone wants to hire me from temp to perm. I told the agency before I agreed to work the gig what my salary requirements would be. I've told them twice, since. Today I even included an analysis of the industry, what the market value of the position is, what the job entails, and my background and experience, as well as a link to back up what I said. And today I get an e-mail that "we could ask for [10K lower], but otherwise, you might be pricing yourself out." Mind, you, this 10K lower is what I made 5 or 6 years ago, and a good 18K lower than my last full-time job. And I was already pitching at the low end of the bell curve for that position, just because I like the people I work with and I understand that it's a young company facing growing pains. Well, I'm sticking to my guns. If they want me, they'll pay for me. If not, then I'll stick with freelancing and keep looking for someone who will pay fair market price for the position. I'm not even angry at the interested company. I'm annoyed at the agency because they knew going into it what kind of salary I'd expect. |
| Telling It Like It Is | Posted – 8/27/2008 8:39:31 PM | show profile LIFE BETTER EDITED-PLEASE GETS YO' SELF A LIFE I am cringing at the fact that you are so ANAL. I am the kind of person who does not find it necessary to correct everyone's grammar. Yes, writing for a LIVING is one thing, but on a blog, for a quick thought or even a letter or email to friends, I am not going to write AP style or utilize the King's English. I'm just NOT anal, snobby or that tightly wound to give a rat's butt. Those who are quick to correct, go write ahead, but you should be reading the reply or statement and not turn into "a pompous & rigid word geek." Life Better Edited, I am not surprised by your audacity but given that you are so anal to express your AUDACIOUSNESS stating that audacity is used in EDUCATED SOCIETY, is neither here nor there to me as IT 'TIS not of interest other than to act like a big snoddy fart. I have been around many people who do not speak the King's English and I say, "Bravo." As that is not a natural, casual way of speaking. And in a casual environment as a blog, I am not going to be all uppity in someone's face and correct them. Ya see, I realize people make mistakes, write on the fly and speaks as they feel sometimes, dig it? But you did make me laugh as I picture you sitting there with your grey hair, hump in your back, big ass glasses and toupee or wig on the table as you have difficulty sitting with that stick up your gludious maximus, as you diligently proof your every word before you press the send button to Media Bistro for fear that you might not....ooooh, use the absolute, in your realm, educated society verbiage. You better unwind your rubberband brain or you might implode and have a stroke. Lighten Up! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/27/2008 9:34:25 PM | show profile Sure, "audaciousness" is a word. Not that common -- but a word. You'll find it in almost any good dictionary and Microsoft spell check will give it the thumbs up. --Google is not a dictionary - not even close. Just because FreeOnlineBSDictionary.com says it's a word, doesn't mean it's accepted in educated society. It's "audacity." Also, 'tis = it is. The apostrophe signifies the missing "i." No need for the extra "it."-- |
| coasttocoast | Posted – 8/27/2008 9:42:16 PM | show profile TILII: What irked me wasn't your initial use of "audaciousness," but that you had the nerve to correct someone who called out your mistake by referencing Google. Clearly, you can't stand being corrected. So what if I pay attention to spelling and grammar? It's how I earn my keep, and I think communication is improved by the proper use of a language. And I'm in my twenties - not in the least gray and certainly not in possession of a hump or glasses. Thanks for the laugh, though. |
| worldofnatasha | Posted – 8/27/2008 10:08:08 PM | show profile hmm... I'm pretty sure the correct word is "audaciosity"... |
| consider | Posted – 8/27/2008 11:33:42 PM | show profile "Audaciousness" isn't common use. If you want to be "edgy" while the rest of us (including me; I'm not yet thirty) stay "square," knock yourself out. I do have to wonder what sorts of images individual MB posters project when they go on interviews -- including me. I'd love to be a fly on the wall! |
| Telling It Like It Is | Posted – 8/29/2008 3:38:53 AM | show profile SO MANY GRUMPS, SO LITTLE TIME Whatever makes your boat float, LIBE. You wrote that you were "IRKED," so me thinks that you are the one with the mind issues. Google user and proud of it. I'll write it again. Google user and proud of it. And again: Google user and proud of it. Thud. There goes LIBE as it's head just exploded. I'm laughing too. Let it go LIBE. Take deep breaths. The end drama queen. |
