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Topic: Does Bacon's/Cision Negotiate?
| Author | Message |
| lewisgroup1212 | Posted – 8/28/2008 1:15:40 PM | show profile I just spoke with a representative from Cision Media and he told me that the Small Business package was $3500 and that was the hard price. Does Cision negotiate? I have problem believing this is really the hard price if it is not listed on their website. Just want to know any experiences from anybody out there and package price did you get the media. Thanks! |
| LoDo | Posted – 8/28/2008 7:13:18 PM | show profile Nope. I laughed at the $200 difference between what they told me was the sole practitioner rate and the agency rate. I ended up going with MediAtlas. It's $1995 for the soles, but they break it up quarterly. I've found it's just as good as Cision. ------ Lori |
| maphop | Posted – 8/29/2008 10:41:07 AM | show profile Believe it or not, Cision LOWERED their rate...it used to be closer to $4900 if you got both the North America and International modules. My problem with Bacons/Cision is that their customer service is horrible and it's an annual fee. That said, MediAtlas didn't use to offer quarterly rates (they do now) and it's cheaper but, frankly, they don't update as frequently as Bacon's and so you'll see more out-of-date information when you're compiling lists. It makes my office crazy to come across an editor's name that we know has been gone from a publication for at least three years - or, worse, that a television station for example changed their email format 12 months ago and the six releases sent to the assignment desk, producers, news director, etc. have now all come back as bad addresses - but, hey, that's the tradeoff. |
| Gedarov | Posted – 8/29/2008 11:13:05 AM | show profile i've found Vocus to be the best media contact service (they update the most frequently, provide all kinds of useful, up-to-date pitching info, and list staff/beat moves...), but of course, you get what you pay for, and they are SUPREMELY expensive. |
| LoDo | Posted – 8/29/2008 12:29:09 PM | show profile Yes, MediAtlas/Vocus is expensive...but at $1995 broken up into payments vs. $3500 in total, it's quite cheaper. Plus, you're right: They do update more, and I love the Bulldog pitching notes. ------ Lori |
| lewisgroup1212 | Posted – 8/29/2008 1:54:36 PM | show profile | email poster Are you saying MediaAtlas/Vocus updates more than Bacon? |
| maphop | Posted – 8/29/2008 9:15:30 PM | show profile No, Bacons/Cisions updates far more frequently (IMHO) than MediAtlas/Vocus. Their data always tends to be more up-to-date. Less problems with out-of-date email addresses, distribution preferences, editor names, etc. On the other hand, Bacons/Cision is more than twice (almost three times) the annual fee of MediAtlas/Vocus so... |
| lewisgroup1212 | Posted – 8/30/2008 11:00:48 AM | show profile I understand now, thanks so much! |
| LoDo | Posted – 8/31/2008 12:40:51 PM | show profile Sorry, maphop, but I've used both systems, and I've found Vocus to be more user-friendly and contain less errors than Bacon's. They both have had outdated info here and there, but Vocus seems to be faster to respond in fixing that info. ------ Lori |
| maphop | Posted – 8/31/2008 4:03:43 PM | show profile Agree with you, LoDo, completely on Vocus (MediAtlas) being far better at customer service and fixing things that are problematic - it's one of the reasons we just cancelled our Bacon's contract (we had been using both) but we find we get fewer email returns due to bad addresses with Vocus versus Bacons/Cision. Hey, either one's worth the investment! |
| LoDo | Posted – 9/1/2008 11:54:25 PM | show profile I just wish they weren't so bleeping expensive! ------ Lori |
| Skippy | Posted – 9/11/2008 6:15:04 PM | show profile | email poster Vocus co-op? I've been working with vocus to get access...and yes, they are horribly expensive. That being said, the rep said a coop of independent pr folks could go in under one name, and the annual $16,000 cost of four seats would be spread among the four individuals. I'm trying to get a group together. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 9/11/2008 6:47:08 PM | show profile I MUCH prefer Vocus to Bacon's/Cision. It is quite expensive though, but I find the functionality of it to be far superior. |
| maphop | Posted – 9/12/2008 10:01:52 AM | show profile Perhaps Confused? Skippy, who in the heck at Vocus quoted you $16K? Perhaps that was a typo? Vocus (MediAtlas) is far less expensive and if they're allowing "grouping" of individuals, that's new news. They, like Bacons, used to have an incredibly firm rule about NO grouping for site/database sharing and if you were caught doing it (at least at Bacons) it was a cause for termination of the service. Ditto for someone purchasing the database and then offering to run lists or search functions for others using media boards like this one. Either things have changed pretty dramatically in the last year or so or else you got misquoted, both in price and in policy. The addition of modules, like international contacts, will add to the base price of either Vocus or Bacons/Cision but neither are even remotely close to that price. |
| Meg Weaver | Posted – 9/12/2008 11:41:25 AM | show profile | email poster Less expensive directory Please forgive the shameless self-promotion, but you may want to check out the Wooden Horse Magazines Database (http://wwww.woodenhorsepub.com) if you need to contact magazines and can copy-and-paste and send your own lists. You get expanded editorial position, reader demographics, and editorial calendars. Even writer's guidelines. And it's only $149 per year. |
| Skippy | Posted – 10/1/2008 2:19:50 AM | show profile | email poster Mahop - not confused Mayhop, I'm not confused. I thought it was a great opportunty for all that was offered. please contact me if you'd like. |
| LoDo | Posted – 10/1/2008 11:28:42 PM | show profile I have to agree with maphop. I pay $1995 as an indie for MediAtlas. The only thing it doesn't include are editorial calendars, and those are $400 extra. But that's still far cheaper that the $16K split between 4 people. And, my contract specifically states their policies about sharing. Are there stipulations about what they quoted you? Because I'm thinking if one of you dropped out, are the rest responsible for your bill? ------ Lori |
| maphop | Posted – 10/3/2008 11:11:19 AM | show profile The rate that LoDo quoted is about right for just the North American module but even adding international and a few other "add-ons" you're going to be significantly under $5k. I'm not sure why they would have quoted Skippy $16k. Because I've got renewals coming up, I've been called in the last couple of weeks by sales reps for both Cisions and Vocus and received new 2009 rates from them. Just out of curiousity, I also queried about any changes in their "share" policies and both were quite adamant that if it was determined that more than one entity was using a single account, it was a violation of the sales agreement and that they could cancel the account basically at-will and without refund. This is a topic that's been covered many, many times on this board and within ASJA, PRSA and NWU boards with it all being pretty clear on share policy; if you share the account OR offer to run lists for others off of your account, it's a violation of the contracts. Not sure why there's so much confusion on this! |
| Cyrus | Posted – 10/5/2008 6:02:52 PM | show profile I just did a new round of research on this in lieu of a contract expiration and found Burrelle's Luce to be the best deal by far. They charge $2,195 a year for their media database, which also comes with free clipping. You can also pay monthly, quarterly or annually, which might be important for some folks in this environment. I have no connection whatsoever with the company, obviously, just thought I'd pass along what I've learned. In contrast, Cision wants $3,995 for their new "small business suite." Cision was willing to give me the legacy MediaMap platform for the same price as B-L after first quoting me $2,895, after I complained that the search functionality on that platform has always stunk to high heaven. I'm also trying out Contacts on Tap. As others have pointed out, while it's superior in price, it does have its disadvantages. They are planning improvements in search technology, but I'm not sure it will ever really compete on functionality. But at $695 a year, I guess you can't be picky. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| maphop | Posted – 10/7/2008 10:39:35 AM | show profile Market Changes? Cyrus, I'm also finding that as my end-of-year contract quotes are coming in from MediAtlas/Vocus and Bacons/Cision that if I'm firm enough there seems to be modest wiggle room in negotiating either free modules (I use three of them including international) or in cost or payment terms. There was one overlap period where I had both services - Bacons and MediAtlas - and was spending upwards of $9K a year (NOT including $2K plus for ProfNet!) on the various products and add-ons; a lot of money but essential to the kind of coverage my clients demand and which they pay us to have. During the overlap period, though, it did allow us to compare the two products and both had strong and weak points not to mention difference in pricing. I haven't compared Burrell's listings to the other "big two" but I've always been disapponted by their clipping service and have kind of ignored their media listing product. I'll take a look based on your thoughts and posting. Thanks. |
| Cyrus | Posted – 10/7/2008 12:10:20 PM | show profile Map, I can't testify to their clipping. I guess I'm an "odd bird" in that regard, but I've never really need a traditional clipping service. Since I don't do consumer-oriented campaigns, I always have a relatively narrow sphere in which I operate and target, so it's pretty easy for me to track the coverage that's coming up. IOW, while other companies may get coverage that their firm didn't arrange, that's not the case with me, so I can just as easily arrange copies to be sent to me as track them through a clipping service. Also, as far as ProfNet, if you're a solo practitioner, get their solo rate, which is I believe $850. They peeved me this year because they tried to stick me with a $3,500 renewal until I pointed out I'd submitted all the paperwork to continue the solo rate. They quickly adjusted, but still want me to pay a $195 annual PRN membership fee. I know the opinions on HARO differ, but again since I'm not in consumer products, the vast majority of my hits come from my own outreach and not ProfNet opps. Given that, I'm seriously thinking about dumping ProfNet and just sticking with HARO. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| maphop | Posted – 10/7/2008 8:45:16 PM | show profile I use both ProfNet and HARO - and a couple of other boards and source lists - for my leads with all of them offering different quality/quantity of leads. HARO seems to want more Glamour Magazine-style consumer sources ("Real Moms Fighting Foreclosure" kind of stuff or "Have You Ever Kissed Your Friend's Ex-Boyfriend"...) with the occassional request for a professional to comment on finance, law or politics whereas ProfNet seems to attract more "academic" queries. Still, both are good and there's no set rule for either. Agree with you on the clipping service fees, too. I no longer employ a clipping service because of the ROI and if a client insists on one, they understand that they're going to be billed for the actual service costs. My office is pretty good at sourcing and tracking stories as they come out using 5-6 different engines and/or databases so the incredible cost of a Burrells or similar is borderline insane. |
| Skippy | Posted – 10/8/2008 1:19:22 PM | show profile Vocus quote Vocus quoted for four seats on one account. Total was $16,000 |
| LoDo | Posted – 10/8/2008 3:38:02 PM | show profile Vocus quote Vocus quoted for four seats on one account. Total was $16,000 Yes, Skippy, but that was an agency quote, and likely included plenty of bells and whistles. Like we've been saying, there are strict rules about individuals sharing an account. In fact, I'm looking at my contract right now, and it states no sharing, or they will terminate you. That's why Vocus offers an indie rate, which I have. It's $1,995 for the North American media module. Another $400 gets you editorial calendars; $600 gets you international media. And all that only costs $2,995...far less than $4K a pop. If you like, I'd be happy to send you the information for the woman who helped me. ------ Lori |
| maphop | Posted – 10/8/2008 7:47:23 PM | show profile Ah, now I think I understand what Skippy was talking about at $16K for use by four people; that IS about what they charge for a single agency or organization to use it in-house (meaning all four can be online, creating separate lists and manipulating data) at one time. Still, it's working off of one IP address, not four addresses located at four different individual agencies or offices. That's not the same as what I thought he was referring to and the reason I initially responded saying I was confused...I can't imagine why someone would opt for that package unless they have a large agency and, frankly, most large agencies wouldn't opt for that package either! It's not that difficult to work with a standard contract package. Vocus is far cheaper than Cision although I find that their data is a bit more outdated. Still, for the price, it's a better buy than the other options out there. |
