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breaking news- SCOTUS upholds health care plan
1–25 out of 34 messages
| Author | Message |
| Village Gal |
Posted - 6/28/2012 12:29:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
dismantling this will become the centerpiece of Romney's campaign. at least he'll have an issue. |
| SPC |
Posted - 6/28/2012 12:46:57 PM | show profile | flag this post
Obama now owns the biggest tax increase in history. Combine that with taxmageddon, a worsening economy, higher health cost thanks to Obamacare, Republicans will have lots to run on. This will win the Senate for Republicans. |
| Village Gal |
Posted - 6/28/2012 12:47:14 PM | show profile | flag this post
bump...this is a major legislative victory for Obama. |
| beenthere |
Posted - 6/28/2012 12:56:39 PM | show profile | flag this post
This is great news. |
| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/28/2012 1:01:22 PM | show profile | flag this post
Huge win for Obama and the Democrats... it does nothing for the GOP. Everyone who was against Obamacare was already energized for this campaign. The decision throws the ball into Romney's court. He can't simply keep saying he'll repeal Obamacare. He now has to offer an alternative. And he -- and the rest of the Republicans -- have nothing to offer. Obamacare includes every GOP health reform idea of the last 20 years -- except interstate insurance sales. THAT idea, passed in Georgia last year, has been a failure there. No insurance company is making use of it. |
| cruster |
Posted - 6/28/2012 2:30:02 PM | show profile | flag this post
A Clear Defeat for Obama Right? Isn't it?! NO?!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| newscred |
Posted - 6/28/2012 3:32:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
If enacted fully, see if you're smiling in 5 years The split in votes couldn't be more dramatic. The four who opposed stated that the whole plan was unconstitutional. Don't know where Roberts' head was on this, maybe politics. At least Kennedy saw what this "plan" really was. With Roberts siding with the progressives, it's a sad day for America. An already bad economy is going to be hit hard by a plan (if fully enacted) that is going to cost us dearly...in money and in our freedom from excessive government control. |
| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/28/2012 3:37:43 PM | show profile | flag this post
I'd be smiling more... with a single payer plan. But I'll be smiling in 5 years knowing I'm no longer paying for the health care of 50 million Americans who don't have insurance. I'll be smiling 10 years from now knowing that there are shorter waits for health care because hospitals and doctors offices aren't interrupted by "emergency" treatment for minor conditions. I'll be smiling 50 years from now knowing that preventative health care has let me live past the century mark. And I'll laugh, too, about how it -- like Medicare and Social Security -- becomes one of the most popular programs in U.S. history. Oh, and how the Republicans shot themselves in the foot by forever tying Obama's name to Obamacare. |
| orthicon |
Posted - 6/28/2012 3:40:59 PM | show profile | flag this post
i seriously doubt roberts was thinking politics.. y'see, one of the beauties of what they call a lifetime appointment is that you DON'T have to worry about politics.. it's not like mitt romney could fire him, is it? |
| SPC |
Posted - 6/28/2012 4:31:39 PM | show profile | flag this post
etaoin shrdlu Posted - And I'll laugh, too, about how it -- like Medicare and Social Security -- becomes one of the most popular programs in U.S. history. Oh, and how the Republicans shot themselves in the foot by forever tying Obama's name to Obamacare. LOL. Libs have been using that talking point since Obamacare was shoved down our throats. |
| stopbs-- |
Posted - 6/28/2012 6:09:24 PM | show profile | flag this post
Thanks, Etaoin "But I'll be smiling in 5 years knowing I'm no longer paying for the health care of 50 million Americans who don't have insurance." No. Maybe you won't. I WILL! "Beyond that, the law also has tax implications for many families. The biggest are for high-income individuals who will face a Medicare-tax increase and a 3.8 percent tax on investment income, designed to help pay for the ACA's costs." http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2012/0627/Health-care-reform-law-How-Supreme-Court-ruling-affects-families/(page)/2 Damn it. How is that "just" in the United States of America? How do you justify punishing success? You are not using your head if you don't see how this is going to kill jobs. I'm not going to hire that 51st person, if it means that I now have to insure all employees. 56% of Americans oppose this plan (Reuters.) "About 56 percent of Americans said they opposed the law in a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Sunday. When asked about its individual provisions, however, most respondents said they strongly supported them, except for the individual mandate, which was opposed by 61 percent of those surveyed." (Of course, these people apparently don't realize that most of the goodies they like will fall away without the individual mandate to pay for them.) http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/28/us-usa-healthcare-court-idUSBRE85R06420120628 The Supreme Court did not say that Congress and the President have the right to force me to buy a product. The slim majority (John Roberts) oddly concluded that Congress has a right to tax me if I don't buy the product! How does that make sense when the result is that the tax forces people to buy the product and gives breaks (raises my taxes) for those who can't afford it? You are wearing rose-colored, liberal blinders if you think that Romney "now has to come up with an alternative." NO HE DOESN'T, Etaoin. The only "alternative" is to repeal this stupid, job-killing, economy-stalling, oppressive, tax-raising law! Your comment actually suggests that, for some reason, the majority of Americans who oppose this law will suddenly change their minds because the court says Congress can tax them more. How does that work? By the way, the Liar-In-Chief and his cohorts aggressively tried to sell this piece of crap by insisting that it was not a "tax." Liars. Then they insisted to the SCOTUS that it is a tax! 'We can do that. We can tax people.' How can you stand being part of this group of lying weasels? Well, this is why we have elections. Let the Liar-In-Chief explain to American voters why their taxes are going up in a recession. Let one reporter with balls ask him how he doesn't see his "not a tax" claim as a lie...when calling it a "tax" is the very argument which his attorneys used before the court. I promise you that this one issue will galvanize the right into sweeping Romney into office. And just FYI, I don't call names frivolously or to incite. I am calling Obama and his leadership liars because they lied to me and they lied to the American people. Hopefully, it will cost them in November. |
| newscred |
Posted - 6/28/2012 6:11:32 PM | show profile | flag this post
I stand corrected... Maybe Roberts' decision didn't have politics directly tied to it. I stand corrected. But I don't think his decision was related to whether or not it was constitutional. Somehow he got the idea that mandating people to pay...and penalizing them if they don't...is some kind of taxation. And enacting taxes are within the purview of congress. Odd interpretation to say the least. I personally think Roberts was wrong. As for the other four progressive judges, one of whom should have recused herself because of her association with the writing of the bill, they are helping walk america toward a financial cliff, dumbly following Obama, a guy who in my opinion doesn't have America's best interest at heart. |
| stopbs-- |
Posted - 6/28/2012 6:27:58 PM | show profile | flag this post
Well said, newscred ..and a more sober response than mine, but I'm spitting nails. That's never a good time to write. I heard one commentator say that Roberts was "looking at his legacy." I don't know where he was looking, but his head was not anywhere that has light. |
| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/28/2012 7:16:18 PM | show profile | flag this post
stopbs... The majority of Americans still want health care reform. We can't function long as a nation -- or an economy -- without it. Health care costs now comes to 16% of our GDP -- more than any other country on the planet. Health care inflation has been growing at several times the rate of other goods and services and was a primary factor in forcing bankruptcies in the recent recession. It is also driving up portions of the national debt. Beyond that, if 50 million Americans are uninsured -- who do you think is paying for their health care? You and me. As far as hiring that 51st person -- yes, you will. If you are interested in growing a business, you will see the profits of expansion to be greater than the costs of finding a plan for your employees. Besides, it's doubtful you will have 50 employees if you haven't already provided health insurance -- they won't stick around. |
| cruster |
Posted - 6/28/2012 8:51:12 PM | show profile | flag this post
As I've Said Before... ... I am old. OLD!! And now the death panels are on the phone telling me I have an appointment early next week. You'll all have to enjoy global cooling with me. |
| mpdodgson |
Posted - 6/28/2012 9:54:53 PM | show profile | flag this post
I'm sorry, I was at work today... Is the Country still here?? I mean Michelle Bachmann (whom God speaks to) firmly told us that this would be "the end of our Constitution and the end of our republic as we know it. It will bankrupt us, there is no question Obamacare will do that, and it will change our relationship to government forever,” “I think it will be one of the final — so to speak — nails in the coffin to our country.” Guess that was tad over the top. Of course I agree with others that this is HUGE for the WH...and well, Big for the GOP. Only "Big" because while Mitt now has something he can kick into 'Republican High Gear' with (GOP Tactic #1: Scare the CRAP out of people over something. Tactic #2; BLAME someone fot it.)... Romney is stuck between a Flip Rock and and a Flop hard place. ACA and/or ObamaCare was always a REPUBLICAN idea, so he can't argue that. It's also a national copy of ROMNEYCARE, so he can't argue against the merits. He suggested it should go national, so he can't argue that. And, I just love watching the wingnuts heads explode over this one--This was a debated law, passed by Congress, signed by the president, and now upheld by the Supreme Court....Can't wait to hear the next cry of 'DICTATOR' after all that... Last thing...re: the Justices reasoning; just because you know you have the best job security in the world doesn't mean your decision isn't "political". These people are political appointees--based on their political stance--they can and will sometimes base their decisions on politics (Bush v Gore, Citizens United, anyone?) BUT they often step beyond that and decide solely on the merits of the case and whetehr it's the right thing to do. Like this case. In my opinion. |
| SPC |
Posted - 6/28/2012 10:23:56 PM | show profile | flag this post
We get mp. Any time you disagree with a SCOTUS decision its political. |
| stopbs-- |
Posted - 6/28/2012 10:40:03 PM | show profile | flag this post
Dictator! ... happy to oblige, mp. Grrr.. |
| VTexan |
Posted - 6/29/2012 8:13:42 AM | show profile | flag this post
I just think it'll be interesting ...to see how the WORKING HARD TO DENY YOU COVERAGE platform will fly with the American people. I'm just weird enough to think that's not a winning strategy. |
| beenthere |
Posted - 6/29/2012 9:30:53 AM | show profile | flag this post
Anybody see Jon Stewart last night? Clips of Romney stating that after he repealed it, he would do THE EXACT SAME THING as what is in the AHC, except he doesn't mention how to pay for it. Absolute silliness, undeniable hypocrisy. What the Administration needs to do now is start advertising all the benefits of it, just like Obama did yesterday when he spoke. Then the Reps can try to explain how taking those benefits away from Americans is a good thing. My friend who is diabetic was jumping up and down with joy yesterday--no more pre-existing BS to deal with. |
| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/29/2012 10:00:47 AM | show profile | flag this post
You just predicted the campaign plan... of every Democrat this fall, been there: "Then the Reps can try to explain how taking those benefits away from Americans is a good thing. My friend who is diabetic was jumping up and down with joy yesterday--no more pre-existing BS to deal with." Most people don't know what's really in Obamacare. The media spent too much time focusing on the political ballgame rather than on the bill's contents. So the American people think it's full of death panels, rationing books and a clause that forces you to marry a gay doctor. And, when asked, a plurality of Americans oppose the plan. But, ask those same people about the individual parts of Obamacare and you get nearly tow-thirds support. People just don't realize those popular elements are in it. So, with the GOP calling for the repeal of Obamacare, Democrats are free to campaign on these points: "Republican candidate X promises to let insurance companies deny you coverage for a pre-existing condition... X would let insurance companies cut off treatment for heart disease, cancer or other life threatening diseases...if they cost too much... X promises to prevent you from keeping your kids on your health insurance plan until they're 26..." And the list goes on and on. These are extremely popular provisions that Republicans are effectively promising to take away if they repeal Obamacare. |
| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 11:33:32 AM | show profile | flag this post
Examples of doing what is extremely popular with the public are Greece and France. Both are near bankruptcy but their idiot populations...who have been treated to government largesse for decades...refuse the necessary austerity to rectify their economic situations. That same sort of entitlement mentality is taking hold in the US. So "doing what is extremely popular" is not...repeat, NOT...necessarily a good thing. We in the US need to have our expectations reset to realistically consider the means and ability of our government to do "what is extremely popular." |
| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/29/2012 12:07:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
These are not just popular... cruzo, but they are examples of protecting the American people -- part of the reason for having ANY government. Care to regale us with why we should eliminate any or all of the examples I gave: 1) Access to insurance despite pre-existing condition, 2) Access to insurance for your kids until they're 26, and 3) Preventing insurance companies from rationing health care by setting a maximum spending limit for care? |
| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 12:28:20 PM | show profile | flag this post
Your characterization is dishonest The rationing will be done BY THE GOVERNMENT...and with many other priorities competing for the tax revenue funds, health care will be downgraded in precedence. That will result in long wait times, rationing of care, unavailability of some procedures, too few doctors to treat the burgeoning paitient load, etc. You and your left wing brethren refuse to acknowledge the PROVEN FACTS of socialized medicine as amply demonstrated by Europe, Canada, etc. |
| Grateful Deadline |
Posted - 6/29/2012 12:37:22 PM | show profile | flag this post
A lot of good information was put forth yesterday (not here -- elsewhere) about what is in the plan, what's myth and how most of the content originated in Republican proposals. Considering that last one, the GOP blow-back is stunning. Obviously, Republicans disrespect not only their own, but also the intelligence of all of us in the electorate. People are not as stupid as Republicans seem to think they are. I was on the road yesterday, listening to news (not talk) radio as anchor upon anchor tried to dig up negativity about the plan. It wasn't working. It was a decidedly one-sided day despite their efforts. Moreover, health care isn't the major issue at ground level -- it's way down the list because people have figured out how to cope. If health care became the centerpiece of Romney's campaign, the GOP would be seen as out of touch with their concerns. And so I agree with the OP, Village Gal. With the ruling done, the Democrats have an opportunity after the next GOP parry on health care to come back with strong statements about what's really on voters' minds. |
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