Novak Says Goodbye To CNN
Robert Novak had his last day at CNN today, ending his 25 year career with the network with a long interview with Wolf Blitzer.
CNN put together a nice video montage of Novak’s career and, as it played, it was hard not to notice how integral Novak was to the network’s history and success. Accordingly, it was hard not to feel some regret and sadness at the bittersweet manner in which Novak’s accomplished career at CNN has come to a close.
The interview produced little in the way of news. Novak said he couldn’t talk about why he couldn’t talk about his involvement in Plame-gate. He regetted–but wouldn’t deny–his recent comment at the John Locke Foundation that “I’m confident the president knows who the source is.” He regrets–somewhat–his column that outted Valerie Plame not because he did anything wrong but “because it’s caused me so much trouble.”
He concluded the interview with a final thought: “Can I say one other thing? I want to thank CNN for making this network available to me for 25 years. Never censored me once, ever. And I said some outrageous things. And it was a wonderful opportunity for me. I think I worked hard for CNN, but it was a wonderful opportunity, and I want to thank them.”
Rushed transcript after the jump.
Full transcript
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And now the man himself, Bob Novak is here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Bob, welcome.
ROBERT NOVAK, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: We’re going to get to the CIA leak and other issues in a few moments.
Let’s talk about some of the issues right now on the agenda.
The president of the United States, George W. Bush, he’s been in office now for five years, approaching his sixth year. You have been a good conservative all these years.
Are you satisfied with the way he’s conducted himself? Has he been a good conservative from your perspective?
NOVAK: I think it’s a mixed bag, Wolf.
I think his tax policy has been terrific. I think we would be in the depths of the economy if it weren’t for the fact that he took a tough stand, a courageous stand in cutting the capital gains cuts, tax, the dividend tax, other income taxes.
I think, like most — all Republican presidents, he hasn’t done enough to reduce the size of the government. Nobody wants to bite that bullet.
The thing that I took issue with him, I didn’t think we should have gone into Iraq. It was a few of us conservatives thought it was a bad idea. Once we get there, you can’t bug out. You can’t…
BLITZER: What was so bad about going in and getting rid of Saddam Hussein?
NOVAK: It was wonderful getting rid of him.
I’d like to get rid of a lot of dictators, but we can’t send the U.S.
military around the world to get rid of every dictator.
The question was, was it necessary in the national interest?
BLITZER: Was it?
NOVAK: I didn’t think it was. I didn’t think it at the time. Because I said several times on this network that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
BLITZER: How did you know that and the president of the United States, the vice president of the United States were convinced that there were apparently?
NOVAK: Because my sources — I don’t run my own CIA. My sources didn’t think there were, in the military, people I trusted.
And the indication by the inspectors indicated there was no weapons.
But the point…
BLITZER: Do you — let me…
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Sure.
BLITZER: Was the president sold a bill of goods on Iraq?
NOVAK: I think they got in a mindset where they really wanted change of government, and then it was a need to find reasons for a change of government.
BLITZER: Why was that?
NOVAK: I believe that they felt that this was the key to American foreign policy.
I think it was — they thought it was very important to our ally, Israel, to get rid of him, to peace in the Middle East, and then you kind of think of reasons to get it done.
But let me say, Wolf, that I really do believe that once you are in there with American troops on the ground and the commitment of this country, I think it is highly irresponsible to get out.
I’m so disappointed in Congressman John Murtha, who’s a great public figure, talking about redeployment, of forces getting out.
I think we are going to get out at a slow rate. But a rapid redeployment would be a disaster for this country.
BLITZER: Because you remember when he ran for president in 1999 and 2000, he ran against the notion of nation building. He thought that was a huge mistake.
NOVAK: I still think nation building is a bad idea. But we’re in — Wolf, we’re in nation building and, once you start, you can’t say, gee, I didn’t think this was — this isn’t much fun; we have to get out.
BLITZER: I’m sure you’re upset also about this expansion of the federal government. It’s bigger than it’s ever been before.
NOVAK: It is. I think it would be even bigger if we had a Democratic president and a Democratic congress. There’s no question. If you follow Congress, and I know you do, all the fights that go on there is the Democrats, like people in Oliver Twist say, “I want more.” They want more on their plate, more porridge.
BLITZER: But the Republicans have been in charge of the House of Representatives now for what, 11 years?
NOVAK: They have too much, but they don’t have as much as the Democrats. Democrats say every bill they want more for schools, more for welfare, more for everything except the military. And so it’s not that they’re fiscally responsible. What the Democrats want to do is raise taxes, which would be a disaster. You know, remember Henny Youngman?
BLITZER: I do.
NOVAK: He used to say, “How’s your wife compared to what?” And that’s the thing with the Republicans. How are the Republicans compared to what?
BLITZER: Compared to Bill Clinton. Are you nostalgic for those eight years of Bill Clinton?
NOVAK: Oh, I certainly am not. I thought he was a terrible president.
BLITZER: But he did have a balanced budget, and he did have surpluses for a long time.
NOVAK: I’ve never been for a balanced budget. I don’t think it’s important. It’s a sign of something — you can’t have a balanced budget when you have 9/11, when you have a war going on around the world. And, of course, he left the country with a recession when he left.
BLITZER: I know you fiercely protect civil liberties. Are you disappointed that after 9/11, the president authorized secret wiretaps on American citizens without court orders?
NOVAK: I don’t know about the whole wiretap situation. It’s something that have really come to a conclusion on. I do believe that the Patriot Act goes — particularly the revised version coming out of the conference committee — goes too far. I think there’s too much freeloading by the police.
I know this. I started — Wolf, I started covering police in Joliet, Illinois, in the 1940s, before you were born, I believe. And the police always want more. They want more power. And I believe a real conservative wants to keep a control on police power.
BLITZER: So you would tell your conservative friends on the Hill to reject this Patriot Act, at least those provisions?
NOVAK: I think amend it. I think you have to have the Patriot Act. I think that Senator Sununu has been going…
BLITZER: John Sununu Jr. from New Hampshire.
NOVAK: That’s right. He’s been going in the right direction on the Patriot Act, trying to amend it. And a few other conservatives have been doing the same thing.
BLITZER: All right, stand by, Bob, because I want to get to some other issues in a moment. But we have to take a quite commercial break. You remember what quick commercial breaks were all about.
NOVAK: No, I know. I love quick commercial breaks.
BLITZER: Stand by for a moment. Bob Novak. Much more of the CIA leak bombshell. Bob Novak’s role in outing the operative Valerie Plame Wilson. What does he think about the use of anonymous sources now? And does he think Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation is having a chilling effect on journalism? More of our exclusive conversation with Bob Novak. You’re in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. On July 14, 2003, Robert Novak published a column that left and indelible mark on his career and on the Bush White House. He wrote about former ambassador Joe Wilson, who questioned the president’s justification for war in Iraq. And he disclosed that Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, was a CIA operative.
Two years later, the investigation of that leak led the special prosecutor to indict the vice president Dick Cheney’s then-chief of staff Lewis “Scooter” Libby, who has since resigned. Bob Novak hasn’t given any interviews since Libby’s indictment until now. He’s still here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Welcome back. Before we get to some of the other stuff, what do you make of the indictment of Lewis “Scooter” Libby?
NOVAK: Wolf, I haven’t discussed this case on the advice of my lawyers. I was set to go on CNN at the time of the indictment of Libby and tell about my role of the case, things I haven’t disclosed on the grounds that the case was over. And to my amazement the special prosecutor continued the case and late summoned a new grand jury.
So I was very disappointed because if I had been able to go on CNN to discuss that case, then I would have done my regular commentary on CNN for the rest of the year until the conclusion of my contract, which is now. So I was very disappointed…
BLITZER: So you were surprised on that day when he indicted Scooter Libby that the whole thing wasn’t resolved and still continuing?
NOVAK: Oh, yes. We found that out that morning. And I was all set to go on. I was writing a column. My newspapers were prepared to have a special column. And we were going to have — it was Friday remember?
And we were going to have a Saturday column running…
BLITZER: I remember vividly.
NOVAK: … in “The Washington Post.” So it was very disappointing to me. And I still — if this investigation ever comes to an end, and it will come to an end, then I will be writing a column. Unfortunately, I won’t be with CNN anymore.
BLITZER: Let me read to you what you wrote, just to be precise. These were the sensitive words. “Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife Valerie Plame is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson’s wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.” Do you regret writing that story?
NOVAK: Well, it’s a very interesting question. I probably do because it’s caused me so much trouble. I don’t think I did anything wrong, but as a practical matter, it wasn’t a big scoop. You know, I think it was in the seventh paragraph of a 13-paragraph story or 11-paragraph story.
And so it was just a throw-away line. And the whole column was not abusive toward Joe Wilson in any way.
BLITZER: The argument was that it was designed, releasing her name, to undermine him and to question his credentials.
NOVAK: Yes. And I have said that that wasn’t the case.
BLITZER: Why was it necessary to publish her name? Didn’t CIA officials try to dissuade you from doing so?
NOVAK: Well, they said they would rather that I didn’t. But my information was it was well-known.
BLITZER: What was well-known?
NOVAK: Her name.
BLITZER: Well-known to whom? Because it had never been published.
NOVAK: No, no, it hadn’t been published, but it was well-known around town.
BLITZER: Because there are suggestions now that she’s come under death threat, that she’s lost her career, she’s no longer able to good out on clandestine operations for the CIA.
NOVAK: Well, I can’t go into a lot of details, but I can tell you what I’ve said before publicly. And that was that the CIA people said that it was highly unlikely she would ever go on another operation. This was before I wrote this.
BLITZER: Here’s what you said the other day, at least according to the “Raleigh News & Observer,” December 14, 2005: “I’m confident the president knows who the source is. I’d be amazed if he doesn’t. So I say don’t bug me, don’t bug ‘Washington Post’ reporter Bob Woodward, bug the president as to whether he should reveal who the source is.” You were talking about your initial source for this story, is that right?
NOVAK: I was giving a speech, as I do every couple of years, to a conservative think tank called “The John Locke Foundation” in Raleigh.
And I’ve spoken there for years. And I’ve said a lot of outrageous things to them, and it never gets in the paper. I’d made the bum reporter’s mistake. I didn’t think there would be any reporters there.
So that was a stupid thing for me to say. I was just kind of — it wasn’t in the speech, it was in the — I had given a speech for about 40 minute. We had about ten minutes of Q&A, and that was the last question. It’s always the last question that does you in. That was a dumb thing to say.
BLITZER: Was it dumb to say it, or was it not true? Do you believe the president knows who your source is?
NOVAK: It was dumb to say it.
BLITZER: But you do believe the president…
NOVAK: I’m not going to say. I thought it was an off-the-record operation. And I really don’t want to go any further into it. I’m embarrassed that it appeared in print. I thought it was just in a private setting, so I don’t want to go further into it.
BLITZER: I want to talk about your career at CNN, but one final question on the CIA leak. Other reporter who have testified before the grand jury –whether Tim Russert or Judy Miller, Matt Cooper — afterwards, they’ve come out and explained their role, what happened, what didn’t happen, which is their right to do so. Why can’t you do that now?
NOVAK: I can’t tell you why I can’t do it. I’ve been advised by counsel not to, my lawyers. And I take their advice except when I’m saying something stupid to — something I thought was off the record. I have said repeatedly I will describe my role when this investigation is over, and I’ll explain why I haven’t said anything. But I can’t — and I’ll be happy to. I’ll be delighted to when this investigation is over, but not until then.
BLITZER: And you’re anxious to do that, I assume.
NOVAK: Yes, I am.
BLITZER: And you’re anxious for this investigation to be over. Your late partner, Rollie Evans, who was a good friend of mine too, a great journalist in his own right — listen to what he said here on CNN before he passed away about you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLAND EVANS, CNN’S EVANS & NOVAK: He’s a very all-embracing kind of person, very shrewd, very smart, very smart fellow. Economics, politics and sports. Very diligent follower of sports. But for the show, politics, economics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You remember Rollie Evans, obviously, a lot better than I do.
NOVAK: One of the great reporters.
BLITZER: He was a great guy. When you did all those shows, Evans & Novak here on CNN, who was your favorite guest? Looking back over all of those years.
NOVAK: I think my favorite guest was Boris Yeltsin. It was very hard to get an interview with him. We had him scheduled in Moscow one year, and he didn’t show up on a Saturday night. I was told never schedule Boris Yeltsin on a Saturday night at night. And so we got him in the daytime in his office the next year.
And he was really fascinating. Nobody really knew where he was coming from. And what he really said in that interview was that they were abandoning communism. That was the first time it really came over, and that he didn’t believe in socialism, didn’t believe in the communist system.
And that was — Wolf, that was one of the last interviews he ever gave because a lot of thuggish aides got involved with him and were demanding money a little money in order to do an interview. And you’ll find that there was almost no interviews by American networks after that.
BLITZER: Because we wouldn’t pay for interviews with leaders like that. The final “Crossfire.” You were on with Paul Begala. Listen to Paul Begala from that final “Crossfire.”
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: I went around on that 2004 election, about two or three times, maybe it was even more, Paul and I went to mass together. And people would come up and say, “How can you guys go to church together?” Well, I think we actually believe in the same God. Can you imagine that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Actually you were talking about Paul Begala. That was James Carville.
You had another episode with James Carville on CNN, as you remember.
NOVAK: A lot of episodes on CNN.
BLITZER: As our viewers will recall. What kind of relationship — even when you and James, or when you and Paul, got into it, you did have a pretty decent relationship with these guys, a civil, cordial relationship.
NOVAK: I think, yes. We enjoyed our company, in fact, off camera. I try to be honest and not hypocritical. I didn’t always enjoy their company on camera. I think there was a mismatch between us in one way because Paul and James, they were Democratic operatives. They were out there to help the Democratic Party.
And I was not a Republican operative. I’m not even a registered Republican. I’m a conservative. So you had one side was all for the Democrats and the other side was — I tried to be even-handed, but from a right of center viewpoint.
BLITZER: And you’re a journalist. They’re not journalists, they’re strategic political operatives.
NOVAK: That’s right. Yes.
BLITZER: In that sense, it was sort of one-sided, not necessarily all that even. You’re a great sports fan, as a lot of our viewers know.
You love the University of Maryland basketball team, you love the Washington Wizards. I’m a season ticket holder, just like you. The Redskins you love. Did you ever think that maybe all these years, you would have been better off being a sports reporter than a political reporter?
NOVAK: Wolf, a lot of politicians think so. I started off as a sports writer. You mentioned I’m also a loyal alumnus of the University of Illinois, and I still am going out to their game with Michigan State on January 5th.
BLITZER: When they play Maryland, who do you root for?
NOVAK: I keep my mouth shut. I hate it when they play each other.
But I covered the 1952 Rose Bowl for the ” Champaign-Urbana Courier”
between Illinois and Stanford. And then I took the train up to San Francisco and covered the East-West football game. I was then — I wasn’t even 21 years old then.
And I said, “Is it going to get any better than that as a sports writer?” The Korean war was going on, I was about to go into the army as an officer. And I said, “Gee, I think I’d like to do something more serious.” I think I would have been out of place and frustrated as a sports writer. But I love it as a hobby, being a sports fan.
BLITZER: Me too. Bob Novak is finishing up his memoirs. We’ll look forward to reading those. We’ll look forward to spending some time with you at Wizards games and other sporting events here in Washington.
NOVAK: Can I say one other thing? I want to thank CNN for making this network available to me for 25 years. Never censored me once, ever.
And I said some outrageous things. And it was a wonderful opportunity for me. I think I worked hard for CNN, but it was a wonderful opportunity, and I want to thank them.
BLITZER: And we want to thank you. We know you worked hard for CNN.
Bob Novak, merry Christmas, happy New Year. And thanks for all your 25 excellent years. Let’s hope the next 25 years are even better.
NOVAK: Thank you.
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