Podcast 99: How Can Marketing Improve Enterprise Learning- Job at Talentedlearni

EPISODE 99: Connecting Marketing and Learning

Laura Patterson, President, VisionEdge Marketing

Most learning professionals realize that training program success depends on effective packaging and promotion. But how many of us treat marketing only as an afterthought? Can professional marketers teach us strategies that get better results?

For more than 30 years, Laura’s actionable, no-nonsense performance marketing methods have helped hundreds of companies grow and thrive. She understands why enterprise learning and marketing share common ground. And she knows how learning leaders can make a stronger business impact by applying proven marketing principles.

CONNECTING MARKETING AND LEARNING — KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Too often, learning and marketing are treated as separate disciplines. But they’re much more similar than you may think. Increasingly, organizations are developing and delivering training programs with a marketing mindset . And the results are impressive.
• To measure learning impact in a meaningful way, take a cue from top marketers. Start by clarifying how the business defines success. Then, develop a top-down action plan — including metrics that align with the business . This helps prove how your programs add value.
• Professionals in both learning and marketing are constantly confronted with an explosion of new tools and techniques. But chasing cool stuff for its own sake distracts teams from what matters. A structured approach helps you avoid “random acts ,” so bandwidth and budget remain focused on business priorities.

CONNECTING MARKETING AND LEARNING —Q&A HIGHLIGHTS

Welcome, Laura. Let’s start at the beginning. When you founded VisionEdge Marketing, what was your goal? Has that changed?

Thanks, John. Well, when I started the company in 1999, the idea of measuring the business impact of marketing wasn’t nearly as mainstream as it is today. But, as someone with a long career in marketing, sales, operations, product, and customer success, I saw a big gap.

I knew marketers were doing important work, but we didn’t always have the tools or the mindset to be successful or to prove that marketing moves the needle. But that is the most important thing.

So, I wanted to link marketing to business outcomes and make sure everything we do contributes to measurable growth. That’s why performance measurement and management have become our core competencies.

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Ialready hear the parallel between how you tie everything marketing does to business outcomes and how we apply that same mindset to learning. So, what are the key elements of a performance-driven marketing strategy?

Good question. It doesn’t matter what function you’re in. But performance-driven marketing starts with one keyword — alignment.

If your function isn’t aligned with the company’s business outcomes and growth strategy, you will struggle. Because when you’re clear on outcomes, you can create meaningful measures that connect the dots between what you’re doing and the impact it contributes to the business.

This leads to several other key points:

• Be clear about how the company defines success. Because every plan should cascade directly from those business outcomes.
• You need customer centricity at the core. As Peter Drucker said, “The purpose of business is to create a customer.” So, if you’re not delivering value to customers, you won’t be able to create value for the business.
• Focus on meaningful measurement. It’s easy to get sucked into vanity measures. But you need real measures that show you are moving the ball down the field (as we say here in Texas).

And to turn all these things into reality, you’ll want a good roadmap. That’s why we’ve developed frameworks. They help organizations move from ideas to action, from activity to outcomes, and from guesswork to growth.

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Which metrics do you typically target? Revenue? Or…?

Yes, the company wants to achieve that financial outcome. But how will you get to that revenue number?

Is it through net new customers you’ll acquire in a new or existing market for a specific product or service you offer? Or by growing your share of wallet with a particular set of existing customers? Or is it by entering a new market with a new product?

How will you define success? Because that dictates the kind of measures you’ll use.

For example, if you’re expanding the amount of business you do with existing customers, your key metric might be share of wallet. Or, if it’s getting new or existing customers to purchase and use a new product, it might be the product adoption rate.

Where do you find metrics that are most important for the organization? Do you look to executives for that?

Well, back to alignment. Everybody should be rowing in the same direction. They should be working toward the same overarching business success metrics.

Early-stage companies tend to focus on “doing more” as a goal. But doing more often produces lots and lots of random acts that cost time, money, and strategic capacity. It’s important not to get sucked into that “random acts” vortex.

As organizations mature, they become more focused, so you can shift from volume to value. You can begin asking tougher questions like, “What’s working? What’s not? Are we attracting the right customers ? And what problems are we solving?”

And then, in more advanced stages, marketing can become a much better strategic partner. We can help the organization use good data and get insights from that data to inform decisions, help allocate the resources they need, and contribute to long-term business health.

It’s not a smooth journey. But with the right guidance, it is achievable.

What’s the timeline for an organization to go from a “more-is-better” activity-based mindset to targeted performance outcomes?

The sooner the better. Otherwise, you’re wasting time, money, and energy. You know, I was just talking with someone at an early-stage company that is bringing an important product to market.

They were talking about their go-to-market plan and their product launch plan. So, I asked if it was written down so we could look at it.

And the answer was no.

You need to write down your plan. That’s how to be sure you’re moving forward with the right kind of measures, not all over the game board.

It’s something every company can do. And I have a little test I recommend everyone take:

Open up your plan, whether it’s in PowerPoint or Word or whatever. Can you draw a straight line from your outcomes all the way to your activities?

Anything that’s not on that line is an orphan. And an orphan is a random act.

So, you need to tie those things more closely to an outcome. Or you might be missing an outcome. Or maybe you should reconsider those activities.

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Interesting. Can you share an example?

Sure. How many times have you had a conversation with someone who says, “I just saw a company that did A, B, and C on social media. We should do that too.”

Or somebody walks into a meeting and says, “We have an opportunity to do a sponsorship for X, Y, and Z. Let’s do that.”

My answer is, “What outcome does that tie to? How will that help us achieve what we’re trying to achieve and create both business and customer value? And will it do that better than something else already on the plan?”

Because I’ve never met a company with an unlimited budget and the ability to do everything. But if you have, I’d like to meet them!

You’ve helped hundreds of clients over the years. What patterns do you see from team to team to team? Is it the “more is better” mentality? Or other traits, gaps, and issues?

Almost everyone’s biggest challenge is about change. Doing something different. Change is never easy. And it isn’t always just about process. It’s about people.

We have to meet people where they are, understand how ready they are to move forward, set realistic expectations, and make sure we get champions inside the organization who embrace what we’re trying to achieve. But generally, people are too busy chopping wood to sharpen the axe.

Right. These days, most learning teams are bogged down with technology. Now, AI is only adding to the confusion. But with more than 15,000 tools , MarTech is even more overwhelming. How do you help clients stay up to speed, so they continue to make a strong business impact?

You’re right. The MarTech landscape looks like an overgrown jungle, and it gets worse every year. So, our philosophy is pretty simple.

You don’t start with a tool — you start with a result. Once you understand what you’re trying to accomplish and the processes you’ll need to enable or improve that result, then you can figure out what the right technology is.

It’s never the other way around.

Makes sense. So, I see you’re breaking new ground with a SaaS marketing tool of your own. Tell us about that…

It’s an application called Accelance , which stands for Accelerating Performance Excellence. It helps people create a visual plan that maps the kind of business-oriented outcomes we discussed to relevant marketing activities, budgets and metrics…

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John Leh is Founder, CEO and Lead Analyst at Talented Learning . He is a fiercely independent consultant, blogger, podcaster, speaker and educator who helps organizations select and implement learning technology strategies, primarily for extended enterprise applications. His advice is based upon 25+ years of learning industry experience, serving as a trusted LMS selection and sales adviser to hundreds of organizations with a total technology spend of $100+ million and growing. John is active on social media and is happy to connect with you on X/Twitter or on LinkedIn .