Katty Kay and Claire Shipman are busy women. They are both major network television journalists — the former a Washington correspondent at BBC, the latter a senior national correspondent at ABC — and they are both mothers, wives, and, you know, individuals. Somehow with all of that, in the midst of an election year, no less, the two came together to write a book.
Released by HarperCollins on June 2, Womenomics is part testimonial, part research findings, and part how-to guide. In it, the authors put forth their notion that a new age has arrived for women in the workplace, that now is the time for women to use their professional assets as leverage in forming the kind of work life that they’re looking for, to find a way to skip the 60-hour weeks without missing out on professional prestige. mediabistro.com caught up with Kay and Shipman to ask about the Womenomics world and how these journalists-turned-authors shopped, wrote and marketed their first book.
How did you develop the idea for the book?
Katty Kay: It really started when we used to have these whispered conversations on the edges of Washington parties about how we sometimes wanted to be on TV less or turn down promotions or not take that big step in our careers. We were trying to find how to have our jobs, but also have more time for our families.
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I guess that’s how our friendship started, and I remember one particular conversation, where ABC News asked me to be White House correspondent, and everyone from my agent to my peers were saying, ‘Of course you’ve got to take that job! They’ve never had a foreigner at the White House before,’ and, ‘It’s a huge compliment to you’ and that this would kind of ‘launch my career in America,’ as if I was some kind of rocket that needed a fuel boost. I remember having this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, because I already had four kids by then and this job was just going to take up so much time. I was going have to be a slave to the organization and travel with the president. So I didn’t feel like this was the right move for me, but I had all these people telling me to do it. So I rang up Claire, and she was the only voice of sanity for me. She said, ‘You’d be absolutely crazy. It would not work with your family life.’
That’s when we really realized that we had these issues we were both dealing with, so we started talking to other women. We realized that all of the working women we knew were dealing with the same issues — that they had a job they didn’t want to quit, but they didn’t want to do that old-fashioned, 60-hour-per-week career ladder.
Claire Shipman: We thought there was something to this issue of having success, but maybe not aiming for the very top. We had the feeling that we have great success and maybe we could talk to other women who are doing the same thing.
There is stunning research on the power women have in the workplace, the attitude about women in the workplace, what people are looking for these days, that it’s not just about success but also about flexibility. That’s really when we knew that this was a much bigger book than we had realized. It’s not just a how-to book or a personal book, it’s really a trend book, and that’s when we really got excited about the project.
The main idea of the book seems to be that women have the power here, and now they can use that power to form the work life they want. Is that something you found that’s been the case for a while, or is it the result of a recent shift in other forces? How did we get here?
KK: What we discovered was a group of fairly recent biz studies that found that companies that employ more female employees make more money. And that really led us to think about the power of women in the workplace, and that we have much more clout than most women realize. We have more undergraduate degrees than men, we have more post-graduate degrees than men, and we even have more Ph.D.s than men. We have a vast amount of power as consumers — we make up 83 percent of consumer spending in America and we buy more cars than men do now. I think a lot of women aren’t aware of just how valuable they are, not just in the economy generally, but to their companies, as well. We wanted to give women this information so that they could start to shape their work life in such a way that they could avoid that crunch of career versus kids.
We wanted to find a way to keep women in the workforce, but the workforce has to change. The old-fashioned model just doesn’t work anymore. We think because of the power women have in the economy, and because of the studies that have come out showing that they have this power, then we have more of a voice than we thought we had to start changing that workplace. Our companies can’t afford to lose us, frankly. They need us, and they need our talent. This gives us the ability to go in and negotiate.
| Kay: “What initially started out as a personal book became a big idea. That’s what the publishers latched onto — that this was not just about our stories, that it wasn’t just a how-to book, but that it was announcing a shift.” |
CS: When we started really digging around in the data, we realized that there is a revolution going on. It’s the start of the revolution, to be sure; it’s all fairly new. Things are really changing, and they’re changing in a big way. Some companies get it and are focused on retaining women and have realized that the magic formula is more flexibility, but many have not, and so women have to negotiate these one-off arrangements on their own. So we’re trying to empower women to give them the knowledge, the information about what’s happening, and then if they work in a hospitable environment, great, and if they don’t, then they can start to try to carve out their own new reality.
Is that idea feasible, though, for women who aren’t at the top of the ladder? Can a personal assistant, or a mid-level accountant, use this strategy?
KK: Well, if you are poor in New York City or you are poor in New Delhi, you have much fewer choices than educated, professional women, and we should be clear about that: it’s much, much harder if you are working on a line job somewhere. Although we did have companies calling us, asking us how they could give some control to employees, even those working on a line, so this is really a retention strategy some companies are looking at across the board. So that’s encouraging. But obviously, you have more choices the better educated you are, and you have more bargaining power the longer you’ve been in the job. So women particularly in their mid-30s to mid-40s are in a particularly good position because they have more years under their belts and are much more expensive to replace. They also have the knowledge bank that companies want to hold on to and don’t want to lose to their competitors.
CS: We’ve also had a number of questions that suggest that, well, it must be easier for you guys because you’re known TV personalities, but we profiled women across professions. We’ve talked to sales reps, engineers, power plant managers, and this something that’s happening for women across all professions. There’s no doubt that it was easier for me and Katty to negotiate this, because we were older and more established when we did it, but our profession is certainly not one that looks favorably on people wanting to cut back or be on TV less. There’s always some risk involved. It’s a bit like jumping off a cliff, no matter what profession you’re in, because you’re making these counter-intuitive moves. But if it ultimately reflects what you want to do and what you feel good about, then it’s a good move.
| Shipman: “In her new role, [Michelle Obama] really doesn’t have a chip on her shoulder about being [in] the back seat as a first lady, rather than being caught up in the ‘is it a job, is it not a job’ question.” |
Is that true for all age groups?
KK: It’s been very interesting during the book tour, because we’ve told younger women in their 20s that, yes, that’s a good time to be able to stack up a bit of credit in your career, but that doesn’t mean that you have to be a total slave. And that’s also really the time to start thinking about these issues for the longer term.
When I was in my 20s and first starting my career, I just never thought about work-life balance issues. The message to me was that I could have it all: I could have the glittering career, be president of my company, work 60 hours per week, have a fabulous husband, cook delicious meals, and have a couple of kids. And then I had my first child when I was 29 and I suddenly realized that I wasn’t having it all, I was doing it all!
It’s interesting to us that younger women are really looking at this work-life balance issue in a way that we never really did when we were their age.
What we’re saying to them is that, ‘Okay, you might have to stack up the hours then, and it’s not a bad time to do it because you have fewer commitments in your life,’ but you can do things in our book that apply whether you’re 25, 35 or 45. Do things like choosing the high-profile projects and doing the things your bosses are interested in. You can get more bang for your time in the office by working on something that your boss is interested in, rather than saying yes to every administrative office that comes across your desk.
The very fact that young women are even looking at these things shows that we’re moving in the right direction.
So the book is really a blend between research, but also a guide for other women, a how-to.
KK: Oh yes. We definitely felt that the research we had found wouldn’t be valuable in individual lives unless there was a section in the book on how to use that power that we have. We wanted it to be a blend of a business trend book and advice we had on how to get that kind of balance. We wanted to book to be very practical, as well.
In the book you cite Michelle Obama as an, obviously, very high-profile example of a woman who has struggled with this sort of back and forth of success and a balanced life. What exactly has she shown us?
CS: We interviewed her on the campaign trail because she spent some time talking then about work-life balance issues and women’s issues. In the personal choices she made, she echoed what so many women are feeling and doing. She’s an incredibly highly trained, successful lawyer, and she’s quite ambitious. She had jobs at a top Chicago law firm and then went to work for the mayor’s office, but at a certain point, and especially once she had children, she felt that she wanted to dial it back. So she very specifically chose a job at the University of Chicago hospital system that was quite flexible. In fact, in one story that I love, she went out for the interview for that job with Malia in tow because the babysitter hadn’t shown up. She could have rescheduled, but that really showed the employer that she needed to be able to be around for her family.
In her new role, she really doesn’t have a chip on her shoulder about being [in] the back seat as a first lady, rather than being caught up in the ‘is it a job, is it not a job’ question. She seems perfectly confident doing what she does now, and can then move on and do something else later.
Was it ever hard to work with a co-author? How is that different from doing this kind of project solo?
KK: A lot of people have told me horror stories about two people writing a book together. You do have to wrestle with your ego a little bit. But I have to say it was an incredibly smooth collaboration. I remember when we got our contract in February of last year, I was talking with a friend who had written a book with another woman and she said, ‘You’re absolutely crazy. You’ve taken on a book contract in an election year, and you both have full-time jobs, and both have children, and you’re writing a book with your friend. You’ll never speak to her again!’ And actually, the friendship has really benefited.
Once you both decided that you wanted to write this book together, how did you pitch it? How did you form your proposal, and who did you go to?
CS: Katty and I talked about it and had the idea. I called a friend of mine who’s a book agent, and I had been in touch with him before about writing a book. My husband [Jay Carney, director of communications for Vice President Joe Biden] and I were supposed to write a book about the 2000 campaign, and then we just thought it was really tedious and that no one needed one more book about the campaign, so we bailed on it. But I still knew this agent, and so we called him. He was enthusiastic right from the start and really understood why this could be interesting and a big idea. He encouraged us and told us what we needed to do for our proposal.
For people who are looking to shop a first book, even if they already work in media, what’s the best way to sell that product to someone?
KK:For us just working through the proposal was very important. We did do several drafts of it, and what initially started out as a personal book became a big idea. That’s what the publishers latched onto — that this was not just about our stories, that it wasn’t just a how-to book, but that it was announcing a shift, a change.
So I think crafting that pitch that will really catch the eye of a publisher is very important.
Especially for a nonfiction book, you have to have an idea and then back it up with interesting stories. Neither of us had actually written books before, so in that respect, even though we both had media profiles and contacts, we were kind of a gamble for publishers because they had no idea whether we could actually complete this thing. We had never done it before, and the deadline was pretty tight.
We had to really focus on that proposal-writing stage to make sure that we had something sellable. And we can’t praise our agent enough, because he really guided us from something we didn’t know. Having somebody who’s your advocate in the publishing industry is essential. And this is a tough time to be selling books.
Once you had a deal set, how did you manage to meet your deadlines?
CS: You have to turn it into something that’s manageable chunks. You can’t sit down every day when you’re writing it and think, ‘Okay, now I’m writing an entire book.’ Our editor helped us enormously with the structure and the outline. We had a good idea, but we really went through that with her so that we could work on it piece by piece, and then it felt much less intimidating.
I also think that working with a partner was amazing. I don’t even think that I would have a book done by myself by now! Knowing that she was working on chapter one and already had it done really forced me to stop procrastinating about chapter two because I knew I had to get it done. I think that sort of dynamic really helped, because otherwise you might just get lost in the abyss.
It depends on personality, too. Neither of us had big ego issues — we just really wanted to get it done.
| Kay: “We were going to be published by Collins Business, and I remember getting an email one morning saying that Collins Business no longer existed.” |
As first-time book authors, was there anything surprising about the process?
KK: The writing and research stages were easier than I thought they were going to be, and the marketing process was more time-consuming than I ever thought it would be. Don’t think that when you’ve written the book and it’s at the publisher its over, because actually then we had to take three weeks off to market it. And you want to sell it, it’s your baby, so it’s really like another full-time job at that point. It’s a long process.
CS: You sort of think that once you think you’ve turned in the final draft that it’s done, and it’s actually so far from done that it’s not even funny.
Were there any big roadblocks in this process? What or who stood in the way of getting this book out?
KK: The big challenge right at the beginning was the mental one of thinking, ‘Do we have the book in us?’ It would have been very easy for us to say, ‘Well, we have our jobs, we have our kids, we can’t get this done.’ Maybe for me, that might be a lack of confidence issue. I’ve never seen myself as somebody who would write a book.
But once we had the contract, I would say that that it went really smoothly.
CS: We did have a major bump in the road when the recession hit, right in the middle of writing. Because this is an economic book, so there was the question of, ‘How is this going to affect our thesis?’ So we spent a lot of time revisiting people we talked with, the HR heads and the CEOs and others. Luckily for us, we think that the recession is really hastening these changes. I think the biggest issue was that in October, we didn’t know what the book industry was going to be like, but nobody ever said we’re going to delay publishing or this and that. Now I think people are eager for a slightly more optimistic, empowering message.
KK: One hurdle was that the imprint at Harper Collins that we were going to be published by was shut down. We were going to be published by Collins Business, and I remember getting an email one morning saying that Collins Business no longer existed. But luckily another imprint picked it up [Harper Business] and our editor stayed on board, which helped a lot.
What has the marketing strategy been?
CS: Talk to as many people on as many media outlets as possible. It’s a bit of a mystery to us exactly what seems to sell books best. But at the same time, it’s pretty obvious. It’s getting on TV shows with the biggest audience, and radio is very important. We really want this to be seen as a business trend book and also a women-friendly book, so we’ve been trying to push the business audiences, corporate audiences, but also The View‘s audience, and Katty’s been on The Colbert Report. So I think it’s key to widen your audience and target as many different kinds of people as possible.
What about the Womenomics blog?
KK: Well, that’s also part of the marketing side. It’s fairly clear now that you can’t market anything without an online presence. And one thing we have discovered is that we’re not the best bloggers in the world! Our online presence is not as strong and dynamic as it could be.
We are trying, and we update the blog when we can.
So one thing I would say to people who want to write books is that, if you’re strong online, that’s great. You’re already light-years ahead of Claire and I.
CS: And part of it for us is that we’re still in the older generation of traditional media, and we do struggle with this. We recently met with this group of “Mommy Bloggers,” really brilliant women, and we were asking them all these questions. Katty and I feel that we need to have something really incredible to say, and if we don’t have anything brilliant to say, we shouldn’t be blogging, and these women just said, ‘No! No, it’s a conversation.’
Who came up with the book’s title?
KK: Our agent. We had thought of calling the book The New All, the idea that women had always thought they could have it all, but actually were looking at the wrong kind of all, and maybe we just needed to redefine what ‘all’ meant.
Our agent suggested Womenomics. It’s interesting — at the end of our meeting with Harper Collins, which we really liked, they loved the book and then said, ‘How committed are you to the title?’
So we said we like it, and that they should give it some time and it would grow on them. And that’s exactly what happened, and now everybody loves the title.
Five tips for publishing a salable book:
1. Ask! “The number one reason women don’t get the flexibility they want at work is that they don’t ask,” Kay says. “There is nothing wrong with approaching an employer — or a publisher — and trying. The worst they’ll say is no.”
2. Make sure the idea speaks to you… The seed of Womenomics lay in Kaye and Shipman’s own experiences.
3…and that it speaks to others, as well. But the idea wouldn’t have worked without the stories of other women and the hard data to support their directives.
4. Once you’ve got the book, sell it. The marketing process for a book is surprisingly exhausting, Kay says, but essential. Power through!
5. Don’t overthink it. “There is something to just executing and not thinking too much about it,” Shipman says. “The more you think about it, the more intimidating it seems, so taking action is half the battle.”
Megan Stride is editorial assistant at Portfolio Media’s Law360.
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